Need a Dunhill Explanation

[MartinH]

Hey Brothers,

I have an enormous case of pre-PAD, if that makes sense. In subscribing to one of the venerable pipe magazines "Pipes and Tabaccos" I'm learning more about the industry and found an interesting e-tailer - Bisgaard Pipes. Their site gives quite a bit info on every pipe they sell, and they appear to have competetive prices.

Of course, I seem to always read about the superiority of the Dunhill brand, and I'm curious what the "fuss" is all about, so to speak. If one of you gents would be so kind, I'd like to really understand what makes these pipes so superior and worth the high prices. That said, I'm still so uninformed about the pipe-making process, that I really don't understand why some pipes have such an exorbitant cost associated with them. I do understand that much of it has to do with the grain, but then I also see many rusticated pipes that are extremely expensive.

I'd love to better understand why pipes have such a large range in prices. Of course, remember that what ever "ammunition" you give me, will be used in defense of a PAD acquisition when I spend too much money. LOL

Thanks in advance for taking the time to help me better understand.

Sincerely,

Martin

 

[Harlock999]

I think some would say that in purchasing a new Dunhill, one is basically buying a carefully placed white dot, on an otherwise perfectly serviceable pipe. It could also be argued that you would be buying into a pipe with a very respectable, yet conservative pedigree. Kind of like marrying into old money, with all that that entails.
Now, finding a nice vintage Dunhill from the golden days of British pipe making? That might be a little more interesting, because it would seem that the lofty laurels that the current incarnation of the brand so comfortably rest upon are based firmly on the reputation of the older pipes. Sandblasting? Dunhill invented that idea, and some would say perfected the art. Many pre-1960's Dunhills have ridiculously beautiful blasts. However, impressive straight grain examples seem to be much more scarce. Pipes that were given the fabled "DR" or Dead Root stamp are rare, and often quite conservatively grained, compared to the wild degree of grain often seen nowadays. An area in which I have next to no knowledge concerns the mysterious and sometimes baffling manner in which Dunhills were stamped. What do all those numbers mean? I think this has contributed somewhat to the brand's mystique, and I'm sure others can explain some of that.
To make a long story short...oh forget it. I tend to treat Dunhill the way I would any other brand, meaning, if I see one that I really like, I'll consider buying, but not just because it's a Dunhill. It needs to wow me, just like any other pipe.

 

[MartinH]

Harlock,

I appreciate your response. So, here is my follow-up question. I am really getting the "collector bug" when it comes to pipes, less so with tobacco. However, I want to invest wisely, especially if I buy anything other than a beater pipe.

How do you chose a pipe? I generally go for bent and straight billiards. I tend to really like Preben Holm and Ben Wades, either straight grained or rusticated.

I go by look alone, and is what worries me. I am pretty sure that Preben Holm and Ben Wades are good brands, but how do I know that I'm getting a good smoker, going by looks alone?

I think I'm also going to break out my better pipes more often, so I can enjoy them more, so I am seriously looking at spending a small amount of my tax return on a Holm or Wade.

I guess I may have answered my own question, go for the brand you like, and then the looks that appeal to you? Is this the right approach, or can I still get duds this way?

I guess I don't want to invest in a $120+ pipe and be disappointing in how it smokes.

Oh, have you ever been to the Bisgaard-pipes.com website? I am pretty impressed.

Thanks!

Martin

 

[Sasquatch]

Looks alone tells you absolutely nothing about how a pipe will perform. Even "brand" has very little to do with it. There are misdrilled Petes and misdrilled Dunhills around.

A good smoker comes down to airflow imho. Assuming the briar isn't junk, then what seperates pipe-to-pipe performance more than anything else is how well set up the pipe is internally, and you can't judge that without opening the pipe up and looking at how the bits go together and basically testing the draw.

In my experience, buying 150 dollar pipes gives you far less chance of buying a loser pipe than buying 30 dollar pipes, but spending money is no guarantee. What you need for a guarantee is that whoever made the pipe did a good job.

Dunhills in my opinion are a charade - a perfectly decent pipe to be sure, but just like jeans with a red tag on them, they are more expensive just because. Collectibility is high, resale value also high, which may be something to consider.

 

[MartinH]

Sasquatch thanks for your reply. So, how do the folks on here buy estates or even new pipes? Do you go to your local dealer and test the pipe, and often pay more, do you have a few e-tailers you trust, is there another way?

Althought we have McCrannies here in Charlotte, I think their prices are a bit high. Their starter pipes are a good deal at $60-80, but anything else borders on luxury items.

Also, I seem to really dig the pipemakers I listed in my first post, Preben Holm and Ben Wade.

I guess, all I can really do is email the e-tailers and ask them what kind of guarantees they have, etc.

Any additional advice would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Martin

 

[Harlock999]

I've looked at the Bisgaard site, but never purchased anything there. They have some nice stuff!
As far as Preben Holm and Ben Wade, I own one of each, and the Holm is fun to smoke. It's a big pipe though, and it's never been in my main rotation. If the number of pipes by those two brands on EBAY can be used as evidence, I guess one could surmise that at some point they were very popular, and, by further extrapolation, that may indicate that they were "good smokers", right? I mean, if that many were purchased during the 70's and 80's, they couldn't have been total duds. I know the higher graded pipes by Preben will fetch a few hundred dollars, but many can be found for far less. And there is no shortage of them, it would seem. The one below sold for over a grand, and is pretty spectacular.

To be honest, I don't need every pipe I own to be a "good smoker", as I don't smoke every pipe I own. As for how I choose a pipe? I think proportions are one of the most important elements that determine if I find a pipe aesthetically pleasing, in all styles. Having said that, I do smoke a Sasieni that is just down right beastly, so, there goes my credibility!

I've never purchased a pipe at a pipe shop. The only decent one around here is the old Tinderbox in Santa Monica, and while they have some very nice merchandise, I can't afford their prices. I've had good luck with all the e-tailers I've dealt with, like SmokingPipes, NeatPipes, and BriarBlues. But there is no guarantee.

Sasquatch mentioned resale value, and that is something to think about. Watch Ebay, and get to know what the trends are, and how the market reacts when certain pipes come up for sale. It's not scientific, but it's fun, you'll learn a little, and see some cool pipes to drool over.

 

[Anonymous]

Dunhills are expensive because they're Dunhills (or, were), the same way designer name clothing is expensive because it's designer name clothing. Their enduring reputation is pretty much based on the pipes they made (roughly) before 1960 (their black shells in particular). The hype was that they were made in the Dunhill shop after careful selection and went through umpteen quality control checks and the much-hyped "oil curing process," but the reality was that they bought stummels to finish from whoever had them for sale to supplement their own production and dropped the oil-curing pretty early on.

The real (and great) Ben Wades were made by Ben Wade, way back when. The shop was bombed in the blitz during WW II and never resumed production ; they sold their lathe to Charitan along with the name.

After the final Cadogan merger (1980s) (?) Comoys, GBDs, Sasienis and the rest of them were all made in the same factory (Swansea, I think) and, when that folded, in France and wherever else. Since then, like "Ben Wade," they've just been names stamped on pipes.

Ebay is a zoo. People there, for years, have bid used Stanwells (and other brands) up past the retail prices of new ones.

For my own part, I just go by the actual pipe itself, with prejudice in favor of old no-names and semi-names that can be customised into great smokers (as well as visual appeal) by guys like LL here.

Whatever works for you is fine.

:face:

 

[Gumball]

I'm still so uninformed about the pipe-making process, that I really don't understand why some pipes have such an exorbitant cost associated with them. I do understand that much of it has to do with the grain, but then I also see many rusticated pipes that are extremely expensive.

I found this series of videos from Blakemar very interesting, showing the pipe making process from start to finish.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/TuJN8HBOQoQ" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" frameborder="0" loading="lazy" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I am finding pipe brands really confusing as a new pipe smoker. Brand names seem to have been through many hands over the years, and depending on the vintage of the pipe it can either being a sought after pipe or a complete dog :scratch:

Those Porsche designed pipes may well be excellent, but to me (looking at a couple of Porsche design hard-drives sat on my desk) it is entirely possible that you are paying a premium for the name. Nothing wrong with that, but as with anything the price is not a guarantee of superior quality.

Good luck with your Dunhill PAD

 

[shootist51]

Harlock,

I appreciate your response. So, here is my follow-up question. I am really getting the "collector bug" when it comes to pipes, less so with tobacco. However, I want to invest wisely, especially if I buy anything other than a beater pipe.

How do you chose a pipe? I generally go for bent and straight billiards. I tend to really like Preben Holm and Ben Wades, either straight grained or rusticated.

I go by look alone, and is what worries me. I am pretty sure that Preben Holm and Ben Wades are good brands, but how do I know that I'm getting a good smoker, going by looks alone?

I think I'm also going to break out my better pipes more often, so I can enjoy them more, so I am seriously looking at spending a small amount of my tax return on a Holm or Wade.

I guess I may have answered my own question, go for the brand you like, and then the looks that appeal to you? Is this the right approach, or can I still get duds this way?

I guess I don't want to invest in a $120+ pipe and be disappointing in how it smokes.

Oh, have you ever been to the Bisgaard-pipes.com website? I am pretty impressed.

Thanks!

Martin

Martin, I particularly like Charatan Make pipes, specifically their shape 284. These were made before Dunhill took over Charatan, so my newest is about 20 or 30 years old. Some were purchased new and some on EBay. The Charatan name has always meant a good pipe, I have over 30 assorted examples and not a bad smoker in the bunch.

If you are going to deal over EBay, you need to find several reputable dealers and deal exclusively with them. I have been proud to deal with Steve Fallon(Pipestud) and can vouch for his integrity. There are several gents who are members here and I can't believe you would be taken advantage of by them, but I have not dealt with them myself.

There's a gent named Marty Pulver who has a web store, not on EBay and he is very well thought of within the culture.

As far as picking a pipe, it has to look good, feel good in the hand, a pipe cleaner should pass easily through to the bowl and it should be realatively lightwieght if you are a clencher.

I would personally buy any pipe before I would a Dunhill, or even two of any other, but this is a personal predjudice on my part. My opinion is that Dunhill produces serviceable pipes with a lot of hype.Their pipes are not particularly attractive, nor unusual and most don't show nearly as much grain as many of the artisan pipes that can be had for the same or less money. They do seem to hold their value, but I buy pipes to smoke and to own, not as an investment. If you want an investment, I recommend gold or silver.

Just my thoughts, hope it helps a bit.

 

[Hermit]

How do you chose a pipe?

I never choose a pipe.
I'll just be sittin' there minding my own business,
when some pipe just screams, "Buy me!"
:twisted:

 

[mark]

:lol!: ,,,they seem to whisper to me seductively

 

[Harlock999]

I found this series of videos from Blakemar very interesting, showing the pipe making process from start to finish.

Cool video, thanks for posting!

 

[djf1]

How do you chose a pipe?

I never choose a pipe.
I'll just be sittin' there minding my own business,
when some pipe just screams, "Buy me!"
:twisted:

me too

 

[itsKot]

:lol!: ,,,they seem to whisper to me seductively

Same here, they almost have to make me want them. Damn seductresses... Oh, we're talking about pipes... disregard that then...

 

[howellhandmade]

http://www.apassionforpipes.com/classic-blog-posts/dunhill-pipe-or-icon.html

 

[MartinH]

I'm still so uninformed about the pipe-making process, that I really don't understand why some pipes have such an exorbitant cost associated with them. I do understand that much of it has to do with the grain, but then I also see many rusticated pipes that are extremely expensive.

I found this series of videos from Blakemar very interesting, showing the pipe making process from start to finish.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/TuJN8HBOQoQ" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" frameborder="0" loading="lazy" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I am finding pipe brands really confusing as a new pipe smoker. Brand names seem to have been through many hands over the years, and depending on the vintage of the pipe it can either being a sought after pipe or a complete dog :scratch:

Those Porsche designed pipes may well be excellent, but to me (looking at a couple of Porsche design hard-drives sat on my desk) it is entirely possible that you are paying a premium for the name. Nothing wrong with that, but as with anything the price is not a guarantee of superior quality.

Good luck with your Dunhill PAD

Thanks for this post. I went on YouTube and watched several of the videos. They were very educational. I think I have a better handle on how I want to select a pipe for me.

Martin

 

[Gumball]

Lucky for me that Blakemar are only 100 miles up the road, so I will be doing a PAD road trip some time this year A pipe smoking acquaintance of mine wrote..."This is my 'local' pipe maker... terrific pipes, great bloke and a good source of honest advice with no patronising overtones for us whipper-snaper newcomers! (The straight grain Churchwarden I got from him is by far the best of the nine pipes I now own...)"

I have been keeping my eBay PAD at bay so that I can save up for one of his larger pipes.

 

[loneredtree]

Dunhill and Charatan pipes were the "top quality" brands when I started in the early 60s. GBD was a second level brand. I have 2 Dunhills. A small Canadian shell bought in 1964 and an estate apple shell from about 1996. They both are good smokers. The Dunhills I saw last year on a trunk sale at my local B&M did not look very well finished.

I would say that the older Dunhill pipes would be a good purchase at "reasonable" price. What ever that is.

 

[tslots]

I found this series of videos from Blakemar very interesting, showing the pipe making process from start to finish.

Interesting video. However, I found one spot - at about the 3:30 min mark - that really made me cringe.

He's cutting the tenon on the stem blank, but then leaves the lathe running while seeing how it fits onto the pipe shank. The back of his hand comes dangerously close to the spinning attachment.

I'm sure he's done this countless times - but all it takes is one little slip and :affraid:

 

[Smoker99]

You mentioned Dunhill, so I will address them. In my opinion, they are way over priced for what you get. That said, I have six of them, and not my best smokers, but good smokers. As far as grain, Dunhill is notorious for not caring much for grain at all. What Dunhill is good at, is producing classic shapes to perfection. My best smokers are Castellos, which are, in general in the $500-$600 range at least. Except for Castello, I think the peak price for quality of smoke is somewhere around $300 nowadays. Quality briar is the key, all the expert drilling in the world won't make a bad piece of briar taste good.