Nightcap in bulk

[Richard Burley]

For those who don't get the Smoking Pipes e-mailings, they now have Nightcap in bulk. First time I've seen it sold that way, but that don't mean nuthin'.

 

[monbla256]

Saw that, now if they would start selling Royal Yacht and Durbar in bulk all would be right with the world ! :twisted: :twisted: 

 

[docwatson]

Thanks for the heads up. Nightcap was available in bulk for decades, but can't say I ever recall Monbla's favorites.
 

 

[monbla256]

Thanks for the heads up. Nightcap was available in bulk for decades, but can't say I ever recall Monbla's favorites.
 

Your right, they never were, just wishful thinking :twisted: 

 

[Kyle Weiss]

I tried a little EMP bulk and it wasn't the same as a tin of the stuff. EMP's one of my Orlik faves, too. Something good happens in the tins, really brings out the toasty, warm nature of EMP.

I'd be curious if Nightcap changes as drastically under pressure versus bulk.

 

[monbla256]

I recall that back in the 80's when I first encountered 965 in bulk, it was said that it was Lane who blended the bulk since they were the importers of all of Dunhill's blends at that time. I tried some of it (965) as I smoked the tinned version almost daily and found it seemed somewhat sweeter than the tinned version and did not smoke any but from the tin after that. I've not tried any of the "new" bulks and since Kyle is a devotee of NC and EMP maybe he should give us a review of the differences btwn them if any ? :twisted: 

 

[Kyle Weiss]

I have some of the pre-Orlik EMP in tins, one that I found sealed in a junk shop (early 1990s, maybe?) and one PeeDee graciously sent to me.   Not sure if it was Murray's/Lane...?   I forget now the lineage.  

Haven't tried 'em, but I am a big fan of the Orlik stuff these days, for sure.  

I didn't review the bulk EMP I got (only a couple of ounces) because it just didn't do much for me.   No sense in disparaging a blend I like otherwise, because it was just different.   Muted flavors, kind of "unsettled" and sharp.   It was similar to what I came to enjoy popped out of an Orlik tin, but not quite.  

One thing about those old EMP tins I have is likely going to be a nearly-gone Latakia, the scant whiff that's barely there as is.   Age really tames the Latakia beast, and I assume the really aged tins will probably be very different from what I know now as the modern EMP.   It'll be interesting, definitely a range-report on that when I finally bust into an aged tin.   The old tins, though, really have a great, bold graphic on it.   Always loved that rooster-in-sunshine motif.   :heart:

Back to Nightcap, though (also good graphics on that one) the bulk will probably be pretty strong. Good news for Lat-lovers and those who prefer a little (pleasant) bite. I'll have to snag a couple of ounces to see what gives.

8)

 

[monbla256]

I have some of the pre-Orlik EMP in tins, one that I found sealed in a junk shop (early 1990s, maybe?) and one PeeDee graciously sent to me.   Not sure if it was Murray's/Lane...?   I forget now the lineage.  

Haven't tried 'em, but I am a big fan of the Orlik stuff these days, for sure.  

I didn't review the bulk EMP I got (only a couple of ounces) because it just didn't do much for me.   No sense in disparaging a blend I like otherwise, because it was just different.   Muted flavors, kind of "unsettled" and sharp.   It was similar to what I came to enjoy popped out of an Orlik tin, but not quite.  

One thing about those old EMP tins I have is likely going to be a nearly-gone Latakia, the scant whiff that's barely there as is.   Age really tames the Latakia beast, and I assume the really aged tins will probably be very different from what I know now as the modern EMP.   It'll be interesting, definitely a range-report on that when I finally bust into an aged tin.   The old tins, though, really have a great, bold graphic on it.   Always loved that rooster-in-sunshine motif.   :heart:

Back to Nightcap, though (also good graphics on that one) the bulk will probably be pretty strong.   Good news for Lat-lovers and those who prefer a little (pleasant) bite.   I'll have to snag a couple of ounces to see what gives.  

8)

If they were tins, they were blended by Murray but distributed in the US by Lane. Murray took over ALL blending of Dunhill's tinned blends in 1981 till it was picked up by Orlik/STG a few years ago.
My old Murray blended tins of 965 have had the Latakia mellow out as well over the 20 + years I've had 'em. They are good but not the same as when I smoked it "fresh" back in the 70's/80's for sure!

 

[DrumsAndBeer]

I have had both bulk 965 and tinned. I found the bulk had a back of the throat harshness that I couldn't get past. Comparatively the tinned 965 was much better. Tin magic?, perhaps. But it was alarming how different the versions smoked.

 

[keen smoke]

From what I can tell, Orlik makes stuff like the Dunhill blends and others like Escudo in absolutely huge batches.  They probably make enough tins of a Dunhill blend to last a few years.  When you think about it, it makes complete sense for a huge factory to make huge batches and store the results - much more efficient than cleaning up and getting ready to change gears to a new blend every day/hour.

Anyway, over a period of 14 months or so, I bought tins of Nightcap here and there from a few retailers and all of them had the same date code.  Smokingpipes alone will generally have thousands of tins of some of these blends on hand.  The tins of Nightcap I got up until recently were all from September 2011.  

So even buying these tins in 2013 "new" I was getting 1 year plus aged/sealed tobacco. That will make a noticable difference in how it tastes vs bulk, I think.

Smokingpipes had even gone out of stock at one point, then had thousands of new tins come back in stock.  Those I got after that restock all had the same date code as before, so Orlik probably made so much that they stored a ton at their own facility.

I'm hoping the reason why Escudo is out of stock in many places right now is because they are in the process of making tons of it!

I know that McClelland does this too, at least with blends of lower demand.  I asked Mike McNeil at Chicago about how much Perique was in Beacon Extra, and his response was that he honestly couldn't remember exactly as he hadn't blended it in a couple of years - he makes a lot of tins of a blend then stores it until retailers order it, with the nice benefit that it gets to age a bit.  As with the Dunhill, every tin of Beacon Extra I bought over a period of almost 2 years had the same code stamped on bottom, so I certainly believe him. Different case with blends that retailers blow through fast, but you might have experiences of your own that bear this out.

 

[keen smoke]

As an aside and addition to what I said above, this is why I would never buy more than a pound or two of a blend at any one time.  What if that batch wasn't its best due to a crop that just didn't taste right?  

I know some folks, if something like FVF comes in stock, will buy 5-10+ pounds of that "batch" if they want to cellar for long term.  Risky.  What if that particular batch of VA used just wasn't quite the same as the one that hooked you on the stuff?  Sure, blenders like Orlik and SG do a FANTASTIC job with consistency in crop and processing, but we are talking an organic matter here and some variances are inevitable - you just hope they aren't very noticable.

I think this might explain some of the reports of Escudo tasting wrong across tins bought over a year or more - its possible they were all from one big batch that just didn't turn out right to certain peoples' tastes.  When a new "batch" of Escudo hits the shelves I'd recommend trying it to see if its any different from the stuff that soured you on it.


Aaaaand... that was a lot of chatter kinda offtopic.  On topic, Nightcap in bulk is a fantastic thing.  Great stuff.

 

[DrumsAndBeer]

keensmoke,

You make some really good points there. I do appreciate your posts, they're always informative..

 

[docwatson]

excellent observations and assumptions. Thanks for your input.
 

 

[Kyle Weiss]

Access to large amounts of leaf matters for consistency. It's like coffee. The good and "bad" dilute each other to some kind of balance (hopefully for the best) in bulk.

Also, Monbla, your tongue is now simply old. I'm sure that is the real answer to the taste conundrum. :lol:

8)

 

[Bluefisher]

Kyle, if you do go out and snag a few ounces of the bulk a report back would be very much appreciated!

 

[monbla256]

Access to large amounts of leaf matters for consistency.   It's like coffee.   The good and "bad" dilute each other to some kind of balance (hopefully for the best) in bulk.

Also, Monbla, your tongue is now simply old.  I'm sure that is the real answer to the taste conundrum.   :lol: 

8)

No conundrum Kyle. The Murray tinned blend I smoked back then WAS DIFFERENT than the bulk available AT THAT TIME. I have not tried ANY of the Orlik/STG blended 965 yet so I can't speak about IT. :twisted: :twisted: