Bullwinkle":g36vhzgj said:
I'm a whore.. most orders I make I will fill the baskets with the same products at 4noggins, smoking pipes, cupofjoes, mars, p&c. if they all are within $10 or so of each other I go with 4noggins. but, getting much over that I go with the best buy. the savings amounts to another tin.
I do similarly, and not just with tobacco, but with anything I'm in the market for.
Richard Burley":g36vhzgj said:
Why should anyone sell X commodity for less than they can get for it? I don't get it. The Esoterica blends are underpriced.
Amen.
idbowman":g36vhzgj said:
Puff Daddy":g36vhzgj said:
To be fair, we don't know what the distributor is charging them for it.
Yep yep yep. Esoterica is a brand known for it's high demand and similarly high prices. ...
Anyone expecting any tobacco product (let alone a brand with Esoterica's reputation,
demand, and cult following) to be some sort of a loss-leader is fooling themselves.
Amen (Emphasis mine)
MisterE":g36vhzgj said:
I think the market will even itself out. If not now, eventually. For the moment, Esoterica and Balkan Sobranie are hot items people feel pressured to get. It will hit a ceiling and come back down. Maybe not in time for Christmas, though.
Some of you will remember the FVF balloon about five years ago. There was the same Ebay gouging going on. However, FVF is again available and reasonably priced. Nobody "did" anything.
I think that's the nature of free market. Prices will always reflect what the market will bear. Don't think it's worth it? Don't buy it. Pretty soon many will come to the same conclusion and the spike will come back down. The dissent is already happening. This thread proves that.
Great points, although I think I read that S Gawith increased FVF production (they 'did something'). I don't understand why Germain's doesn't do the same or charge more to the distributor. That's the real surprise, given the demand of these products.
You also have to think about monopolies. if P&C were the only place anyone could buy tobacco, they still could only charge as much as people are willing to pay. I bet a lot of us would quit pipe smoking if 1Q cost $1k/oz. But if they dropped prices, more people could afford to smoke, and the slimmer margins would be made up for by increased sales volume. Even with monopolies there is a point of equilibrium, and we're not even talking about a monopoly here.
DoverPipes":g36vhzgj said:
First off let me say this, "IT'S ALL PB's FAULT"!!!!!!
Second, I have little to no problem with a seller on E-Bay getting $200 from any idiot who is willing to pay it in an OPEN AUCTION! I do have a problem with retailers jacking up prices to line their pockets! P&C is currently robbing people on the Esoterica & Balkan Sobranie. I have always dealt with P&C because of Russ. However, I think what they are doing currently is outrageous! So, I bought my Balkan Sobranie from smokingpipes.com and paid less than 1/3 of what P&C was charging. I'll buy from who ever deals fair and square.
I don't understand the differences between retailers lining their pockets and individuals lining their pockets via high prices, and I have a problem with neither. I think it's laughable to say they're robbing people. No one from P&C is forcing anyone to buy those products. Robbery involves taking something without someone's consent. Everyone who pays P&C or eBay prices is giving their consent, i.e. willfully handing over their money. If anyone is coming close to committing robbery, it's the government's sin taxes on tobacco, which we can't get around. Every shop is forced to charge those prices. If I'm not mistaken, this is why tobacco costs so much in Europe, and not here. But they're coming for us, too.
Since 2009, RYO cig tobacco has been taxed at $24/lb, while pipe tobacco is $3 or something. There is stuff in the works to even out that disparity.
Why aren't people demanding that Rad Davis charge 'fair' prices' for his pipes. I mean, $800 for something just 'cause it has some over-hyped, flawless, smooth, straight grain?! That's price gouging! I can get a corn cob that smokes just fine for $3! Or what about Dunhil pipes vs. Peterson's? Why is one so much more expensive? Is it perhaps that people are paying for the name, the tradition, at least to some extent? The truth is, value is in the eye of the consumer, and to charge less than consumers are willing to pay is ridiculous, and leads to shortages.
puros_bran":g36vhzgj said:
Big 'merger' a couple years ago.. HQ switched out to CI's HQ in Bethlahem PA. There was a thread on it where guys said "hey it's a good thing"... Lol. Yup sure was. Lmao
They did drop the prices on PS Luxury Flakes at that point. I remember right after the website switch I got to the old website from a bookmark, and the prices on those blends were higher before, but are now in line with other PS blends. Some good things, some bad it seems. (Newminster prices were lower before).
monbla256":g36vhzgj said:
I've been watching and reading this thread as it has progressed and I don't see the reason for it! We live in a society of retail competition. If one can want's to buy something, they look to find it at a price THEY CAN AFFORD and if it's available, they purchase it where they can get it at the price they can pay !! We have a long history of items being sold at exorbitant prices but that's just Capitolism!! We've become a nation of whiners when we can't get things OUR way, and if one doesn't think so. just listen to talk radio which THRIVES on WHINING !! I would like to have a Mercedes but can only afford a used Kia. Such is life :twisted: :twisted: Onward Thru the Fog :twisted: :twisted:
Amen. I don't see why it's immoral to charge these prices for one blend of tobacco that's in high demand. Why don't people apply this to cars or houses or anything else, and demand the prices they want and accuse the seller of being a thief?
Here is the simple point: Everyone is out of stock of Penzance, Stonehaven, and probably every other Esoterica blend. That's because the demand is high (either because tobaccos are better or because of hype; it doesn't really matter). If P&C were really charging too much, they'd have shelves full of the stuff that they couldn't move, and the market would demand they lower their prices. But people want it, even at $130/ 8 oz bag (eBay). eBay and P&C actually serve a purpose. Those who can't be online constantly get a chance to try Esoteric tobaccos if they're willing to pay the premium for not sitting all day withing for the email to get their one shot at the limited stock. If not for those venues, the rich guys with little free time would be out of luck. But nobody cares about them. People just care about how the prices affect them, and not the fact that higher prices would give more people pause to consider whether to buy them, leaving them on the shelves longer, and giving the guys with less time and more money a chance to get in on the action.
It's actually really remarkable how standardized pipe tobacco prices are. Compare them to cigars. The average price of a tin of tobacco is pretty consistent ($6 to $15 or so), whereas you can buy cigars for $1/stick or $30+/stick. Do people on cigar fora complain about the prices of Davidoffs? I just want to know why Esoterica/Germain are charging so little.
