Semois Story in NYT Magazine

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Yak":244nbjip said:
What's funny about that -- bordering on hysterical -- is that from what I've read, our Virginia tobacco strain was imported, early on, from the Caribbean, while "Oriental" tobaccos are this same Caribbean Virginia planted in Greece, Bulgaria, &c.

Different locale, different plant.

:face:
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I don't see what's funny. It's all about terroir. It's well known in the wine world, but the tobacco world refuses to embrace it, no matter how often its discussed. Every time I see a cigar referred to as "Havana-like," I cringe. Not only is the grown tobacco different, the microflora responsible for the fermentation is different. The result cannot be replicated anywhere else. Every time I see Indian or African flue-cured being referred to as "Virginia tobacco," I cringe. Unlike with wines, we have no AOC to dictate how flue-cured is referred to. Try calling a California Cabernet "Bordeaux," and see how long that would fly.

Empire leaf is inexpensive and plentiful, and a lot of people have acclimated to it. It's a Budweiser vs. Belgian ale thing.

Here's where I get grouchy.

Those same people who have been acclimated to the darker, earthier, lower-sugar but higher-nicotine Empire leaf often refer to the brighter, livelier, higher sugar Virginias that some of us use as "green." How a tobacco that's been aged for two to three years can be considered green is beyond my ken, but there it is. I see it all the time, and there's no use arguing the point. The "experts" have spoken. Next time I'm at a wine-tasting event with Premiers Grands Crus Bordeaux, I'll be sure to refer to the younger vintages as "green," so I be an expert, too.



 
Nice grouchiness, Pease. :lol: If it makes you feel any better, working with coffee roasting and tasting opened my eyes to terroir pretty quickly. Locale can practically make a different plant out of the same batch of seeds. Plants are funny that way, some adaptation thing that's makes 'em pretty cool. I've discovered in my own novice horticulture experience that anything from the nightshade family is not only highly adaptable, but can react and change drastically after just a generation or two. Not quite Little Shop of Horrors, I don't need my tomatoes talking to me. Not before I've hit the scotch bottle a bit, anyway.
 
What's funny is the utter irony of it. "Orientals" are from Virginia. "Virginia" is from the Caribbean.

Maybe you've got to be me to see humor in stuff like that though ? :scratch:

:face:
 
Yak":dh828p4w said:
What's funny is the utter irony of it. "Orientals" are from Virginia. "Virginia" is from the Caribbean.

Maybe you've got to be me to see humor in stuff like that though ? :scratch:

:face:
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No, I get it. Just testy this morning. Ever since that Times article came out, I've been flooded with email. "Will you be importing it?" No. There's not enough to satisfy the home trade, let alone export in any quantity. "Can you recreate it?" No. (See above.) "Who sells this stuff?" Sigh. "Can you get me some." No. Do your own legwork. "Where can I buy a canning machine and empty tins?" Google is your friend. (Oh, wait. That's got nothing to do with Semois, but is typical of what I find in my inbox every day.)

Where have you seen definitive information on the fact that orientals are from VA seed? I've been looking for something. I'd read many times that orientals actually had greater similarity to burleys, but I can't find any proof of that, either. If anyone knows of any study that's done sequencing to demonstrate the genotypic similarity of these strains with such dissimilar expressions, I'd love a link.
 
There are so many old books on tobacco that people have quoted from over the years -- probably from some 19th century account.

Supposedly the native Rustica was (is) pretty rough stuff and the early colonists noted that the Spanish variety a lot more user-friendly, so they got hold of some seed and planted it.

:face:
 
Yak":kydmu6gp said:
There are so many old books on tobacco that people have quoted from over the years -- probably from some 19th century account.

Supposedly the native Rustica was (is) pretty rough stuff and the early colonists noted that the Spanish variety a lot more user-friendly, so they got hold of some seed and planted it.

:face:
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Right. That's part of the problem. No one actually seems to really know the genetic background of these cultivars, and all that's been done is speculative. How much mutation have the seeds experienced over the generations? What WAS the original stock? N. rustica and N. nicoteana are definitely different species, but did they begin their evolution as the same plant?

Are oriental and VA cultivars genetically similar, with their differences being only cultivation and curing practices, or are the orientals more similar to burleys?

Not that any of this matters a whit to the enjoyment of the stuff, but I can't help wondering about these things. It's in my nature. I wish I still had access to the labs on campus, and the time to run the sequences. Maybe I should look up some old professors...
 
Sounds like a fine idea to me. We will all cheer you on! :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
 
...well, Greg, you did open up the door a bit, associating yourself with tobacco Nirvana, and suddenly people read into it hope, dreams and possibility. :lol: Smash their dreams? :twisted: Nah, that'd be mean. Hell, at this point with what's happening in Cyprus I fear Latakia being threatened. Nothing to back that up, just something that made me wince. Personally, I like to think with how flexible our beloved leaf is, some will go away, but others have yet to come about. There has to be a few seeds and soil combinations, maybe a few strains to selectively pollinate, that could lead to a wonderful something...someday.
 
The seed seems to really flourish in warmer southern climates... I wounder how it would react to more northern climates?

That being said, I have a feeling no one is growing tobacco north of the 50-degree longitude for a reason.
 
If terroir is so depermental, then would a greenhouse not affect the flavor of the leaf? I know tomatos grown in a greenhouse are not a tasty as ones grown outside naturally.
 
Sure.

But maybe your little corner of Canukistan has exactly the right combination of everything to produce tobacco so tasty that the whole world wants some.

Gotta think positive 8)

:face:
 
The article was a pleasure to read, thanks so much for sharing it. Glad to see something so well written and enthralling about something we all love in a major publication. Felt like I was watching the experience take place.

Here's to hoping I can get my hands on some of this great sounding stuff someday. :D
 
Canukistan... :lol: Geez, gotta tell that one to one of my clients in BC. :lol:

Part of why greenhouse-grown plants don't produce as expected in some instances is airflow. Plants need moving air, and preferably not stagnant. Greenhouses are great at retaining heat, but they also are choked off, because retaining heat versus cold air exchange was an obvious trade-off.

Some interesting greenhouse designs I've seen have included ones that involve residences, that open up to the rest of the house, thus heating it and giving to the greenhouse fresh air (and carbon dioxide for the plants to enjoy). This resulted in winter tomatoes that tasted fantastic. In my realm, it's called a "passive solar" design, and I grew up in a place that implemented this. Another design was an unattached greenhouse that used ground ventilation to move the air without losing too much heat. Pipes were placed deep enough (10 feet, maybe?) with vents to the outside that the ground above, while frozen, some depth down, was hovering around 55-60 degrees. Adjustments of the vents meant the best of both worlds, air flow and heat retention. I suppose keeping roots and critters out of the ducts would be the biggest P.I.T.A.

Tobacco gets pretty darned big, so large-scale tobacco greenhouses are not likely to be the next big all-year cash crop, but it's worth looking into for anyone curious. I for one, once I get a square of land, will be seeing what I can do.
 
Kyle Weiss":mn2geryn said:
Tobacco gets pretty darned big, so large-scale tobacco greenhouses are not likely to be the next big all-year cash crop, but it's worth looking into for anyone curious. I for one, once I get a square of land, will be seeing what I can do.
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Funny you should mention that. I have a friend who is part of the "First Nations Community," and he just inherrited a chunk of land on the reserve. We were throwing around the idea of maybe looking into a large-scale tobacco greenhouse. It could be more economical if the operation could be done on a reserve where there are no Government Taxes to worry about.

Oh the stuff dreams are made of hahaha
 
I just read the article (sorry to resurrect such an old thread). Great read, that beautifully captures the essence of pipe smoking and advocates for it. Kudos to the nyt for publishing it

 
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