Understanding Orientals/Turkish and what is recommended

[bentbulldog]

I've been reading an reading and hearing opinions. While I can understand that tobacco is very dificult to catgorize, my confusion concerns orientals/Turkish

A lot of people consider Latakia an oriental/Turkish. While I'm sure that the leaf used comes from the areas that grow "oriental" I would think that there is a big difference between oriental and Latakia in that Latakia is fire cured whereas orientals are sun cured. Latakia has that distinct smokiness that, to me separates it from orientals. The most descriptive explanation for orientals that I've heard is tea like, sour/spicy herby. But if you fire cure the tobacco, it becomes a Latakia. I can understand that leaves are referenced to by where they're grown but it's the final product that matters. So can anyone comment on this?

As for the other part, I have bought tins of Red Rapperee, Presbyterian mixture, 1792 flake, and of the Grand Orientals , Drama reserve, classic samsun, and yenidje supreme. I categorized these as oriental/Turkish blends (Latakia is little to none and orientals dominate) is there anything that I should add which follows this line?

 

[pipetongue1]

Hi Bent, A fine blend would be Tudor Castle, I have the original PCCA'07, I haven't tried the Mc's version, Ken. :tongue:
Pacem en Puffing! :tongue:

 

[Sasquatch]

Bent, the term "orientals" covers a lot of ground, so your confusion is warranted. A little like the term "cavendish", it really doesn't offer a definitive flavor spectrum if you hear that a tobacco contains "orientals".

Crack the Red Rapparee and light it up. There's a richness, a fullness, a spicey note, a smokey note from a bit of cyprian latakia, and an obvious virginia sweetness. I suspect the first 3 are from the "orientals" in that blend.

Crack the Presbyterian. It smells different than Red Rap by a long shot. It might even have a casing of some kind. But when you light it up, there's a very similar spicey fullness to it. I don't find it as sharp as the Red Rapp. (I think the little flat bits are cigar leaf too, so there's a bit of body added by that).

If you move into the yenidje or the drama, you'll get a hit of those specific tobaccos, and you may find them to your liking and you may not.

The way I try to understand tobaccos when I am exploring them is to see if I recognize any taste from some other tobacco, then I can kind of put it aside, and operate on the assumption that the other tastes in the blend come from the other components.

To answer your latakia vs oriental question, latakia is an oriental tobacco, smoke cured I believe. But when we say "orientals" we don't generally mean latakia because it's so different in nature than the turkish stuff and whatever else there is that we classify as "orientals".

 

[Eulenburg]

I completely agree with you, bentbulldog.

Latakia is a seaport in Syria. The famous smoke-flavoured tobacco was shipped to England from there, and so it was called "Latakia tobacco". At the time, and until the end of World War I, Syria was part of the Turkish (Ottoman) Empire. So Latakia tobacco was technically "Turkish", but it has a distinct blending tradition of its own. I never think of it as a "Turkish" tobacco.

Turkish leaf is its own thing, not only in the curing (usually sun-cured) but in its size and shape. Yenidje, Smyrna, Samsun, Drama, Basma, Xanthe, these are naturally small-leaf tobaccos which, sun-cured, have a distinct natural taste.

After the Crimean War (1853-1856) in which England was allied with Turkey against Russia, British blenders began to use Turkish tobaccos to condiment their beloved Virginia tobaccos. Thus were born the "English" blends:

1. 100% Pure Virginia

2. Virginia condimented with Turkish leaf.

3. Virginia condimented with Turkish leaf plus Latakia.

(An English blend does not have to have Latakia, but it must always be Virginia-based.) A Turkish or Oriental or Balkan ( the words all mean the same) blend does not imply the use of Latakia. The Latakia blends are a category apart.

 

[bentbulldog]

ELulnberg

thank you for that post. I find the history of our leaf facinating. I've often thought about producing a thorough documentary on the tobacco leaf.

 

[SailorJack]

Eulenberg ,perhaps you can help me. I used to be a major Latakia freak but suddenly lost my taste for the stuff. I haven't been smoking any English blends lately but I would like to find a good Oriental blend with little or no Latakia. I specifically like it when I get one that has the exotic aroma of the Orient akin to Frankincense. I don't know exactly which variety of Oriental leaf lends that incense-like fragrance to the smoke but I would like to know so that I could better narrow down my blends to try. Yes Todd , you can put in your two cents worth here also.

 

[Sasquatch]

Jack I don't know enough to offer the "incense like" recommendation. I smoke a lot of Presbyterian, but I don't know WHAT orientals are in it, and I also don't know if it's topped or if the bouquet is from the leaf.

So, as in all cases and all questions, I recommend one tin presbyterian, to be taken by combustion as needed.

 

[babysinister]

Eulenberg ,perhaps you can help me. I used to be a major Latakia freak but suddenly lost my taste for the stuff. I haven't been smoking any English blends lately but I would like to find a good Oriental blend with little or no Latakia. I specifically like it when I get one that has the exotic aroma of the Orient akin to Frankincense. I don't know exactly which variety of Oriental leaf lends that incense-like fragrance to the smoke but I would like to know so that I could better narrow down my blends to try. Yes Todd , you can put in your two cents worth here also.

Penzance (almost rhymes with incense) does contain some latakia, but it's the only English/Balkan blend I've smoked with an aroma that reminds me (and I used to be a Catholic in the years prior to Vatican II) of incense. Or perhaps that was myrrh. Well, anyway, this blend is pure gold. Try Penzance and see if it has the aroma you were looking for and if you like it in this iteration. As Sasquatch said, you can't go wrong with Presbyterian either.

 

[kilted1]

Eulenberg ,perhaps you can help me. I used to be a major Latakia freak but suddenly lost my taste for the stuff. I haven't been smoking any English blends lately but I would like to find a good Oriental blend with little or no Latakia. I specifically like it when I get one that has the exotic aroma of the Orient akin to Frankincense. I don't know exactly which variety of Oriental leaf lends that incense-like fragrance to the smoke but I would like to know so that I could better narrow down my blends to try. Yes Todd , you can put in your two cents worth here also.

I'll chine in here as well:

LJ Peretti Co. Est 1870 Boston (Dock and some others here can attest to their excellence) blend some mighty fine English Blends, some of which contain almost none or no Latakia.

http://www.ljperetti.com/Tobacco/Peretti_s_Tobacco/English/english.html

ROYAL BLEND. A blend of the choicest matured Virginian and the finest Oriental tobaccos. It contains a high percentage of the finest Yenidje (Turkish) leaf. Easily one of the finest mixtures ever!

ORIENTAL No. 40. A blend entirely made of tobaccos from the Near East. It has richness and full flavor. Excellent!

OMEGA. Rich and full flavored, it is ideal for relaxing in the evening after a fine meal. This blend is pleasantly spiced with the gentle flavor of Latakia and superb Turkish. (this one the Latakia is a little more heavy, but an excellent cross over blend)

BLEND "500." A real outdoor man's smoke with plenty of flavor and full strength. A unique blend of Virginia, Havana, Perique and Oriental (pretty stout)

 

[ftrplt]

Never tried Peretti's #500; but the other three are outstanding. Try Tashkent also. Might give PW&W's #400 and #524 a look-see!! FTRPLT

 

[Eulenburg]

I used to be a major Latakia freak but suddenly lost my taste for the stuff.

Same exact thing happened to me. I became a Virginia-and-Périque aficionado.

I specifically like it when I get one that has the exotic aroma of the Orient akin to Frankincense.

Yes! Unfortunately, that's the scent of Latakia. When I was in graduate school, a classmate's husband used to smoke Nightcap and I loved that pungent, burning tree-bark, incense-like smell so (Frankincense is rasin from the bark of the olibanum tree) that I just had to smoke it myself. I still love the scent, but I no longer enjoy the taste.

The taste of Turkish leaf, though, corresponds to that smell, somehow (that's why Latakia blends so well with orientals) and so I have become a great lover of Virginia-and-Orientals without Latakia blends:

My favourites:

1. Fox' Campanile {Among my half-dozen essentials}

2. McClelland's Oriental No 8 [Scrumptious after-taste; the tell-tale sign of a great Oriental mix]

3. McClelland's Yenidje Supreme [Ditto]

4. GL Pease's Embarcadero [red Virginia and Izmir leaf, YUM!]

5. Ashton's Pebblecut [Nutty dark-yellow and red Virginia and Macedonia; deelish.]

6. Dan's Midnight Ride

7. GL Pease's Cairo [lemony Virginia and Orientals; like dry white wine; perfect for a hot day]

8. Presbyterian Mixture [Virginia and Macedonian; mild and soothing]

 

[pipemaker]

Here is something of a primer on "Oriental tobacco"

Greek (Basma Type):
-Xanthi--Many variations from region. Aromatic and sweet.*
-Djebel--Mountain grown. Lighter aroma similar to Xanthi.*
-Mahalla--Sweet taste with minimal aroma.
-Djubek--Macendonian. Very aromatic and sweet.
-Kavalla--Medium Basma. Very aromatic.-
Yenidje--Strong taste, sweet, No aroma.
Bashi Bagli including Trebizond,-- a strong and sweet leaf with little or no aroma. See Turkish grown

Turkish Types
-Katerini--Greek Samsoun. Delicate, even burning properties.
:-Smyrna--Very sweet and lightly aromatic.*
-Samsoun--Top grade, fine, mellow leaf.*
-Baffra, a variety of Samsoun, is more pungent and not quite as refined.
Trebizond is very strong and very aromatic, and is principally used
for domestic Turkish consumption.

Russia
-Sukhum-- Russian grown Samsoun. Rare, One of the finest orientals. Period.*


(*--Best choice for refined balance in flavor, aroma and burning qualities. Others Must be mixed
together for balance.)
____________________________________________________

Over the last few decades,because of reductions in government support and declining economic conditions for the tobacco growers, a large number of them have joined together in co-ops.
Especially in Turkey, the resulting product was a somewhat homogenized mixture sold simply as Turkish.

It appears that in the last 5 years or so, growers have recognized the value of the individual varieties and have made them available. It is encouraging that many blenders are now utilizing the attributes of these fine tobaccos.

Mike Brissett

 

[TonyS]

I know this is an old thread but I had to say Thank You to the contributors, especially Eulenburg. I've been smoking Drama Reserve for a short while now. I'm not wowwed by it..... it's too light in flavor, though what flavor it has is good. So I've become interested in how Orientals came to be and found this damn good short thread.

 

[sonarman]

I've been curious about Orientals lately and this explains a lot. Is there any more info on Izmir leaf? I've been smoking the heck out of Embarcadero lately and I think it really brings out the sweetness of the Virginia. Initially I thought Embarcadero was a Va, burley, and latikia blend, but it's that weird Izmir leaf.

 

[lb]

I had a pleasant surprise with Daughters&Ryan ramback super balkan. It is worth a try.

 

[Dave_In_Philly]

(An English blend does not have to have Latakia, but it must always be Virginia-based.)

Interesting. So if this is true, Margate would not be an English blend. I have always thought of it as being the prototypical heavy English.

 

[Blackhorse]

Def's of what makes something an English blend vary widely, usually accompanied by much shoe pounding on the table. If you read enough you'll see 'em all. The one I believe says that to properly be an English the blend has to adhere to strict guidelines for grading or handling of the component leaf, etc. I think all the rest is opinion backed up by a clenched jaw and a ruddy scowl. lol

Also, knowing what all 30 Oriental leaves and their tastes are is well and good but profits one little as only a few are available for use and even then the blenders generalize the recipe by usually calling it all by the one descriptive term.

And since I too have had the pleasure of Latakia pass me by...not liking it at all any longer except in the very most subtle pinch...I look for blends without it. To me, the Latakia stain in both Presbyterian and Raparee is so pronounced that I can't taste anything else! It's like taking a bucket of sea water and adding a pinch of curry and come cardamom. Who would know!

I agree with the Peretti's Oriental #40 suggestion. They say it's all oriental leaf and I believe it. Other than that, for a taste of the real deal I'm tending to VA based blends with Perique and/or Burley sprinkled on top and then a nice dose of Izmir/Smyrna on top & maybe a dash of cigar leaf. That's going to be something like Patton's Crossroads or Oriental Dusk. Both are, to me, the best of their kind. Air cured, rough cut, arrive dry (thank God). But I also agree with the Pebblecut idea...very fine stuff too. So is C&D' so Riverboat Gambler and Oriental Silk. Lastly, Capt. Earle's Honor Blend (a plug) is loaded with the Smyrna and burns however you slice it.

Good luck. Remember...it's only someone else's opinion.

 

[monbla256]

Years ago, if you wanted an oriental forward blend, you picked up a tin of BS 759, but sadly that blend has gone away. But thankfully the boys in Beantown and those folks up in KC have stepped in with some blends to take it's place Along with Latakia, Peretti's Royal Blend is loaded with Tenidje leaf and the offering I like from the folks in KC ( McClellands) is their Oriental 14. Both are some VERY nice Oriental forward, smooth, full blends along the traditional Balkan blends of years ago. I've enjoyed alot of each over the years and still do and highly recomend both