Aging

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alfredo_buscatti

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In the pipe world much is made over the phases of aerobic and anaerobic aging, even to the point where much or all of an article GL Pease wrote in his "Briar and Leaf Chronicles" addresses the relative merits of periodically opening and as opposed to not opening a jar as the tobacco ages. One of the tenets of aging pipe tobacco is that the anaerobic aging will not start until all the oxygen is consumed by aerobic aging; also, that it is anaerobic aging that produces all the wonderful tastes that are sought by aging. How is it, then, that cigars age at all? Unless sealed in an airtight container, if we follow the principle of aerobic —> anaerobic aging, most cigars aged in humidors would never really age. They would only age aerobically.
 
Good question. I didn't know that aging cigars was becoming trendy too. Seems like aging tobacco didn't become a mainstream practice up until a few years ago. I certainly hadn't heard of it until I began reading about it in the forums.

What I remember most about the article was GLP mentioning that the periodic opening of a sealed jar would produce a different aged result, but not necessarily ruin the aging process. It will simply age differently. An alternate reality, if you will.

Seems like an aged cigar would indeed taste different over time. You might put a couple of cigars in a ball jar and see what happpens? You'll be the expert then!

My personal experience with aging my own tobacco is limited as I only began cellaring a few years ago. Most aged stuff I've tried has been through trades or gifts so I can't be sure exactly how they were stored or by what process (continuous seal or periodocally opened). I'll chime in in, say, 5 years with some of my own experiences, lol!
 
I know I've been having some of the same questions. I've been aging cigars for years and I'm to the point where I can smoke a cigar and say how many more years it'll need before I'll return to the rest of the batch. But as mentioned, Humidors are not air tight and are specifically designed not to be. Storing tobacco in sealed jars seems counter intuitive to me as well.

Of course this is all theoretical but I would think that straight virginia (or anything that only contains naturally cured tobaccos) would probably age best taking a page from the cigar world's play book and treat them with 70% RH at 70*F unsealed humidor style.

If it has latakia sealed is probably best since the latakia would degrade over time if air exchange took place at all times or anything else that contains volatile compounds that could be airborne and drift away so it would make sense for these to be sealed to keep in the freshness.

In the end, I have no idea, so who the hell knows.
 
Outgassing of stuff like ammonia in cigars (and tobacco in bales) is a different story I suspect.

:face:
 
Only thing I can add from my small experience aging both PT and cigars is that PT can in general improve greatly with proper aging and cigars just change taste but perhaps (to my palate) not really "improve". Too subjective to tell. I prefer my cigars at 6 months or one year humidor time. My pipe tobacco at one year (or more) after densely packed, tight jarring.
 
The aging is quite different, cigars left to mellow, off gass, and sit in a natural growing humidity in tightly wrapped form.

Once a cigar has lost its initial youth it is my feeling that it could be sealed in semi vacuum in glass or tin and age much like pipe tobacco - but only if it contains enough sugars to do so.

Burley doesn't age very much compared to high sugar Virginia for example, and Latakia peaks and fades in most circumstances


Anyone know the sugar content of cigar leaf?

As a side note, as cigars have a normally short lifespan it is my intention to wait until the peak or nearly peak and then vacuum jar the surplus (full vacuum to come as close as possible to stopping time for tem)

I have also sealed a few jars of Latakia under vacuum in hopes of having it last past it's normal span...
 
The concept that cigars also age was new to me until I joined the forum below. These are more or less CC smokers who range the gamut from “CCs are better” to “I’ve been smoking NCs for twenty years and have yet to find a single NC that favorably compares to my favorite CCs.” Also you will find that they are big components of aging, talking quite a bit about pre-embargo cigars and the astounding qualities of boxes that are more than ten years old.

http://www.internationalcigarclub.com/

I recently made a friend in the smoking lounge at my B&M who smokes both CCs and NCs. I had many questions about CCs, when I met him and he echoed the opinion that I thought was best that the Island is just another place that cigars came from, and that in sum they are not better, just different. But back to aging. He is a huge proponent. He knows the age of all his 1500 cigars.

But when I asked him about how cigars age, in terms of aerobic and anaerobic aging, he didn’t know. His assessment of aging comes in the smoke. He ages cigars and tries them at 3-6 month intervals and can assess whether aging has improved them; he can tell if the cigar’s flavor is peaking, whether at the upward or downward part of the cycle, and tries to smoke them then. He is also a wine drinker and uses the same analysis. It doesn’t matter if you are at the ascending or descending part of the cycle; you locate the peak and consume then. Also, the same aging benefit accrues on either side of the top of the peak, both ascending or descending.

Now to the replies to my post.

MisterE’s comment that Pease states that periodic opening of an aging jar compared to keeping it sealed produces different, not better, results, is also what I read. But the practice of wrapping boxes of cigars to help keep the tobacco in a more protected and constant aging environment (see ICC) points me toward not opening jars or tins. The interruption of environmental variables by opening a jar certainly disrupts the chemical reactions that were occurring before the disruption occurred. I’m of the mind that a more constant environment is more harmonious to the aging processes that were already underway.

ZeroContent states that 70% RH at 70*F is the correct rh to produce optimal aging in cigars. I don’t know whether or not this is true. But applying PT rules, I would disagree in that although low moisture is supposed to be the enemy of aging, I wonder if this higher humidity fosters aging any better than 60 or 65 rh. (And I am told that at 70 rH tobacco beetles hatch). The point is that tobacco won’t age without moisture; is his comment specifically about cigars?

gandalfpc posted about the “tightly wrapped form” of cigars, but I don’t see an impediment to aging CT in this. As moisture can penetrate even the cellophane wrapping of boxes, certainly the chemical process of aging can penetrate wrapper. As deepbass9 said in his post in “Desktop Humidor Cigar Storage” in The Humidor, removing cellophane is the best way to age cigars, and my friend removes it as well as this allows the different flavors of the cigars that surround each other to marry.

The “normally short lifespan” of cigars is new to me. What short lifespan? If so, why? Like some PT components, specifically latakia (but Pease states that it can be aged 20-30 years without degradation; I don’t know), cigars do peak and fade, but to my understanding this takes years.

I don’t claim to be an expert about any of this; we are grappling with what Vito said is the not yet understood process of aging.
 
By tightly wrapped I was not referring to the cello, which is permeable, but the tobacco itself, which is rolled - not that I can say that effects aging - just making note of the bale like form...
 
What I wrote was, "As moisture can penetrate even the cellophane wrapping of boxes, certainly the chemical process of aging can penetrate wrapper." I meant the tobacco wrapper, not the cellophane around boxes.
 
I am told that at 70 rH tobacco beetles hatch
Which is, as I understand it, why an indispensable part of the manufacturing/storage process should be subjecting the tobacco (in whatever form) to a vacuum environment, which causes the beetle eggs to explode.

= Problem solved.

:face:
 
From what I understand it is above 75 degrees that beetles hatch, and above 75 rh (near 80) where mold grows.

Also, the essential oils evaporate slowest at 70 rh according to studies

I keep my between 65 and 70, temp 65 to 75 - in the cello to protect the delicate wrappers from handling (as they will age just fine in the wrappers albeit a bit slower than without...

as you open the humidor and smell your cigars a little bit of their essence is escaping each time, and the humidor itself is permeable - so in most cases cigars will go flat in 5 or 10 years - slow down that slow escape of vital oils and esters and you should be able to keep them tastier longer...
 
Yak":yxa1l9cg said:
I am told that at 70 rH tobacco beetles hatch
Which is, as I understand it, why an indispensable part of the manufacturing/storage process should be subjecting the tobacco (in whatever form) to a vacuum environment, which causes the beetle eggs to explode.

= Problem solved.

:face:
Another way is to freeze the cigars. But I've read that the methodology varies from "put them into your freezer for 48 hours" to elaborate techniques involving freezer temperature, size and a duration of two weeks. I think that as long as I keep my humidor between 60 and 65 rH, I'm good.

Ascertaining what is best would yield to internet study, but I'm not about to buy a freezer dedicated to this practice.
 
As an avid cigar smoker I can tell you that most of the cigar (I hate this word, but...) cognoscenti agree that 65/65 is typically the best all around temp/humidity level. Now I smoke mostly CCs and the ones I age tend to be in a separate fridge at 65/62-63. One could argue the key is consistency rather than a magic number, but that is hard to do without cooling technology of some sort. You will always be fighting the fridge wanting to make the space less humid. Enter the ETC device I wired into my humidor. Gets to cold, it shuts off the fridge, too hot, it turns it on.

What does this have to do with cigars? I DON'T KNOW! I do know that Cigars from Nicaragua LOSE something after 10 years, Dominican stuff, Like Opus X STILL needs 1-3 years for my taste. Cubans, the lifespan is the limit, depending. Certain brands smoke well ROTT, while Cohiba and Bolivar all need time and the more time the better.

Best cigar I ever smoked was an 83 Upmann #2. Mind-boggling how their could still be a punch could with such complexity and balance. Absolutely knee-buckling.


With cubans, they are rolled after being harvested, as opposed to other kinds where the tobacco ages and is then rolled. Hence, the Cubans go through a sick period between 3-9 months after being rolled. But you can still taste its youth for years.

Ok, that ends "the post that is in little or no way related." :)
 
if this topic interests you and you are a member over at ICC, i'd recommend you read through these threads:

http://www.internationalcigarclub.com/forums/showthread.php?1675-Storing-cigars-Airtight-has-better-results!&highlight=aerobic
http://www.internationalcigarclub.com/forums/showthread.php?10869-Rancio
http://www.internationalcigarclub.com/forums/showthread.php?1540-Why-do-Cabinet-box-cigars-age-better-than-Semi-Plain-Box-cigars&highlight=aerobic
http://www.internationalcigarclub.com/forums/showthread.php?1252-Cabs-v-Dressed-Boxes-A-different-spin&highlight=aerobic
http://www.internationalcigarclub.com/forums/showthread.php?22095-Cigars-Prefer-Aerobic-or-Anaerobic-Environment-for-Aging&highlight=aerobic

they all have lots of interesting arguments from different sides that are worth considering if you have the time and patience to read through them. there are also some great discussions you can find on the interwebs on the topic of aging and fermenting of tea (particularly pu-erh) that are applicable to your questions that you can find via google.
 
Hi Sam A,

Yes, yes, I'll make time to read those threads and google in the direction you suggested.

Many thanks! Aging is poorly understood, but I still appreciate when something helpful is mentioned, even if that is a single point in an entire article.
 
alfredo_buscatti":k9xgv51a said:
Aging is poorly understood
i couldn't agree more, but thats part of what makes it so interesting. have you had a chance to read the ageing section in MRN?
 
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