As usual, Puff Daddy said something that got me thinking. Here's what he wrote in this post in the "How many lights?" thread:
Why would someone put an automatic tranny in a mixer truck anyway? I won't even have one in my pickup truck; obviously, there are folks who think about trucks very differently from the way I do. It got me thinking: Did the people who designed that transmission ever intend that it be used in a concrete mixer truck application? If so, it isn't likely they ever actually field-tested it in the real world to confirm the hypothesis, "Hey...maybe this would be good in a mixer truck!"
What seems more likely that they never gave it much consideration in the first place; or if they did, the marketing guys had other ideas, and that's what ended up being the deciding factor in the transmission's being marketed as suitable for that application. I'm not guessing about this. Here are some telling selections from Allison Transmission's marketing brochure for their Rugged Duty Series automatic transmissions for construction industry trucks:
Too harsh an assessment? I think not. I'm not suggesting that automatic transmissions are a bad idea for all trucking applications. Remember what we're talking about here. The above quotation is from a marketing brochure for transmissions intended for use not in long-distance, highway-only trucks; rather, these are transmissions purported to be designed specifically for the following kinds of trucks:
Anyhow, it sure seems they're not focused on what the mixer truck operator needs on the job site; they're thinking about the trip between the ready-mix plant and the job site (direct quotation from Lou Gilbert, manager of North American marketing for Allison):
But wait...it gets even more entertaining! Here's more marketing-dweeb blather from Allison's slick Rugged Duty Series automatic transmission brochure:
And just in case you're not sold yet, here comes your "time savings" as one of the purported advantages of the automatic transmission:
The rest of the brochure is filled with similar pap, obviously designed for the bean counters at the corporate level who are most likely to be casting the final yea or nay vote as to whether the prospective buyer decides to spec a manual transmission or an automatic transmission into the new truck purchase. Marketing guys are driving the production process, and accountants are driving the buying decisions. The guy who's driving the actual truck doesn't have much to say about it. They're selling these things with the boast that "...an Allison Automatic is nearly 1% more productive." That's a pantload. There's more than 1% play in the way the real world works. The "advantage" they're selling is buried in the noise floor of day-to-day complexity. I don't see anything in there about what the operator needs at the job site.
I'd love to see the empirical data on ready-mix truck productivity in a comparison before and after switching to automatic transmissions. None of the other "studies show" data are worth a damn. If drivers aren't showing more deliveries per day without increasing their hours on the job, the marketing dweebs are blowing smoke.
Vito
Well...so much for that attempt to apply modern automatic transmission technology, at least. Modern technology can be phenomenally well-suited to improving the quality of life, but it's never any better than the thinking processes that design it and match it to the proper applications.Puff Daddy":76oail19 said:...The old Eaton Fuller 13 speeds had a deep reduction and you could put the truck on this edge of a quarter or that edge, but now the autos either lurch when you release the brake or do nothing which requires you to accelerate to get it to lurch. :x So much for modern technology :suspect:
Why would someone put an automatic tranny in a mixer truck anyway? I won't even have one in my pickup truck; obviously, there are folks who think about trucks very differently from the way I do. It got me thinking: Did the people who designed that transmission ever intend that it be used in a concrete mixer truck application? If so, it isn't likely they ever actually field-tested it in the real world to confirm the hypothesis, "Hey...maybe this would be good in a mixer truck!"
What seems more likely that they never gave it much consideration in the first place; or if they did, the marketing guys had other ideas, and that's what ended up being the deciding factor in the transmission's being marketed as suitable for that application. I'm not guessing about this. Here are some telling selections from Allison Transmission's marketing brochure for their Rugged Duty Series automatic transmissions for construction industry trucks:
- Skilled drivers who can finesse a stick shift are rare. With automatics, companies can use drivers with less experience. In addition, by reducing the fatigue caused by constant shifting in stop-and-go driving you increase safety and improve driver retention.
Too harsh an assessment? I think not. I'm not suggesting that automatic transmissions are a bad idea for all trucking applications. Remember what we're talking about here. The above quotation is from a marketing brochure for transmissions intended for use not in long-distance, highway-only trucks; rather, these are transmissions purported to be designed specifically for the following kinds of trucks:
Anyhow, it sure seems they're not focused on what the mixer truck operator needs on the job site; they're thinking about the trip between the ready-mix plant and the job site (direct quotation from Lou Gilbert, manager of North American marketing for Allison):
- "Every time you shift with a manual you take your foot off the throttle,” Gilbert says. “With an automatic you have full power shifts and gain anywhere from four to seven seconds every quarter mile. Spread those small gains out over an eight-hour day and you'll be getting more work done in the same amount of time."
But wait...it gets even more entertaining! Here's more marketing-dweeb blather from Allison's slick Rugged Duty Series automatic transmission brochure:
- Most on/off-highway vehicles spend the majority of their time below 45 mph. And data shows that for every 10% of time spent below 45 mph, an Allison Automatic is nearly 1% more productive.* (emphasis added) If a driver spends 15% of the distance traveled at speeds below 45 mph, this equates to 34.7% of driving time. With an Allison Automatic, productivity would increase nearly 3.5%.*
- *Results may vary depending on your operating conditions. See your local Authorized Allison Dealer to find the potential productivity gains for your particular business.
- What the driver does and how the driver behaves are dependent on the equipment he’s given to drive. It’s physically impossible for a driver in a manual- or AMT-equipped vehicle to shift at optimum points and behave in such a way to optimize productivity. An Allison Automatic makes the decision for the driver and makes the right shift at the right time.
And just in case you're not sold yet, here comes your "time savings" as one of the purported advantages of the automatic transmission:
- A vehicle in an average cycle shifts seven to eight times per mile. With a manual or AMT, the driver loses 14-16 seconds every mile due to power interruptions to the wheels.
The rest of the brochure is filled with similar pap, obviously designed for the bean counters at the corporate level who are most likely to be casting the final yea or nay vote as to whether the prospective buyer decides to spec a manual transmission or an automatic transmission into the new truck purchase. Marketing guys are driving the production process, and accountants are driving the buying decisions. The guy who's driving the actual truck doesn't have much to say about it. They're selling these things with the boast that "...an Allison Automatic is nearly 1% more productive." That's a pantload. There's more than 1% play in the way the real world works. The "advantage" they're selling is buried in the noise floor of day-to-day complexity. I don't see anything in there about what the operator needs at the job site.
I'd love to see the empirical data on ready-mix truck productivity in a comparison before and after switching to automatic transmissions. None of the other "studies show" data are worth a damn. If drivers aren't showing more deliveries per day without increasing their hours on the job, the marketing dweebs are blowing smoke.
Vito