Balkan Sobranie Throwdown

[Carlos]

Russ was X, Altadis was Y, and McClelland was Z.

 

[jj1015]

I thought Greg Pease declined to participate since he has other things on his plate.

Also, pipesandcigars.com has the blend available for pre-order on their website under the H&H Marquee Series and Mike McNeil of McClelland's has said they might produce his blend if he feels like it.

-Jason

Thanks for the info - very glad to hear that it's available as one of the Marquee Series. But I thought that Russ was selling his blends through smokingpipes.com now?

Other things on Greg's plate? What could be more important than to help recreate or at least convincingly emulate Balkan Sobranie? Oh well, we have Russ's take on it, and he is my favorite blender anyway.

Not to be speaking for Greg Pease, but based on his many prior comments I doubt seriously that he would consider re-creating BS to be in any way "important." He seems fairly ambivalent to the whole idea of re-creating past mixtures, although he has done a number of homages. In fact, I wonder why he might take part in such a contest when he's already produced a couple of homages (he describes them as akin to impressionistic paintings) most notably Abingdon.

I doubt seriously that the availability of Syrian latakia would have had any impact on the contest at all. If I recall my Sobranie history correctly, the Sobranie didn't have any Syrian latakia after the late 60s/early 70s,so the batch used as the baseline at the contest should have contained only Cyprian latakia.

I am curious enough about the outcome that I want to sample the entries by Russ O. and McClelland. Personally, I'm not surprised at all by the results. Russ O. has demonstrated repeatedly an innate ability to make quality English/Balkan blends in a variety of styles. On the other hand, McClelland has produced (to my knowledge) only two blends that in any way resemble traditional mixtures and both of those were produced by Fred Hannah (Wilderness and Legends). I'm not knocking McClellands' offerings --I'm just saying that they are very unique, in part because of the distinctive Virginias used in their blends.

 

[LL]

I gotta agree with jj. Creating an approximation of what had already become an approximation itself (by its fourth iteration, BS 759 bore little resemblance to the initial offering) and then changed dramatically by 30 years of aging, makes for a great pipe show event, but is hardly meaningful in any "going back in time" sense.

 

[cakeanddottle]

I am curious enough about the outcome that I want to sample the entries by Russ O. and McClelland. Personally, I'm not surprised at all by the results. Russ O. has demonstrated repeatedly an innate ability to make quality English/Balkan blends in a variety of styles. On the other hand, McClelland has produced (to my knowledge) only two blends that in any way resemble traditional mixtures and both of those were produced by Fred Hannah (Wilderness and Legends). I'm not knocking McClellands' offerings --I'm just saying that they are very unique, in part because of the distinctive Virginias used in their blends.

How about Tad Gage's 3 Oaks?

 

[docwatson]

Tad Gage's 3 Oaks (original blend) was always my favorite approximation for Balkan Sobranie. I have been enjoying this blend since it was first introduced by Tad which was in 1992 I believe. IMHO it is the most mellow, and seemingly aged blend I've ever enjoyed to replace BS. And still happen to have a stash on hand of the original blending along with the new production.

 

[Anonymous]

Balkan Sobranie Smoking Mixture is, IMHO, a poster child example of something that's famous because it's famous.

Lane Ltd. was a good enough distributor that you could find it nearly anywhere ; even in places where it was the only non-codger-burley-in-a-pouch offered. Compared with what people were used to, it was the tobacco from Mars, and expensive to boot. But its iconic tin came to achieve near-universal recognition by dint of ubiquity.

There were (opinion) better tobaccos then (first tin 1968). Further : even if its original incarnation would magically re-appear, after the excitement of it died down and the buzz subsided, its place in the pantheon of popular imagination would not be (opinion again) be what it is today. It would be good stuff indeed, but it would not be occupying the throne of Zeus. (That spot would be filled, of course by Balkan Sobranie Virginian No. 10). (Or, for those to whom older = better, according to taste, by the original Bankers, FVF, Orient Express, Three Nuns, London Mixture . . . ).

IMHO, spot me BSVa10 and I'll go with GLP

:face:

 

[docwatson]

YAK,
I couldn't agree more. There are more good blends out there today than we have ever had the pleasure to enjoy. Guaranteed that once the stuff hits the market it would be a mad rush to stock up and then sales would plummet. Like anything new on the shelves, the anticipation and excitement once over it's just another blend. And I only have ONE tin of Sobranie Virginian #10 left in my cellar that I can't bring myself to crack open. Darn
Doc

 

[blendtobac]

I'm thrilled and surprised to have won the 2011 Throwdown, and I want to thank and commend the Seattle and New York Pipe Clubs for developing the concept. The blend will be available in 3 to 4 weeks, and will be called BlackHouse (for the black label and House of Sobranie). I'm overwhelmed by the responses and well wishes of so many from our community.
This was a labor of love, and I was humbled just to be asked considering the other people who were invited. I had no illusions of winning, and yet, somehow, it happened.
I've now been asked by a number of people since the contest to try to emulate Escudo, Three Year Matured Virginia and Sobranie #10. I have a prototype for #10, and i will have to work on techniques to attempt the other two, but this gives me some new projects to work on.
Thanks to those who attended and those of you who have supported me through your encouragement and by being customers over the years.
Our products are still under the PipesandCigars.com umbrella but Sykes has graciously brought our tobaccos into his extensive lineup, and as we expand our wholesale efforts, I hope you will be able to purchase Hearth & Home tobaccos at more retailers around the country and other countries as well.
BlackHouse, however, will be part of our Marquee Series, which, at least for now, will be exclusively sold on out own website.

Thanks,
Russ Ouellette

 

[lordnoble]

Thanks for the heads-up, Russ! Looks like I'll have to find someone to send Black House to out-of-state... :evil:

-Jason

 

[glpease]

Balkan Sobranie Smoking Mixture is, IMHO, a poster child example of something that's famous because it's famous.

Lane Ltd. was a good enough distributor that you could find it nearly anywhere ; even in places where it was the only non-codger-burley-in-a-pouch offered. Compared with what people were used to, it was the tobacco from Mars, and expensive to boot. But its iconic tin came to achieve near-universal recognition by dint of ubiquity.

There were (opinion) better tobaccos then (first tin 1968). Further : even if its original incarnation would magically re-appear, after the excitement of it died down and the buzz subsided, its place in the pantheon of popular imagination would not be (opinion again) be what it is today. It would be good stuff indeed, but it would not be occupying the throne of Zeus. (That spot would be filled, of course by Balkan Sobranie Virginian No. 10). (Or, for those to whom older = better, according to taste, by the original Bankers, FVF, Orient Express, Three Nuns, London Mixture . . . ).

IMHO, spot me BSVa10 and I'll go with GLP

I suppose there is always Key Largo. (OF course, not the same, but close enough to make ME happy, at least.)

 

[jj1015]

I am curious enough about the outcome that I want to sample the entries by Russ O. and McClelland. Personally, I'm not surprised at all by the results. Russ O. has demonstrated repeatedly an innate ability to make quality English/Balkan blends in a variety of styles. On the other hand, McClelland has produced (to my knowledge) only two blends that in any way resemble traditional mixtures and both of those were produced by Fred Hannah (Wilderness and Legends). I'm not knocking McClellands' offerings --I'm just saying that they are very unique, in part because of the distinctive Virginias used in their blends.

How about Tad Gage's 3 Oaks?

I honestly wasn't all that impressed by it, although many guys seem to love it. Of course, I only smoked about a quarter of a tin and then jarred the rest, which is why I haven't reviewed it yet. My first impressions were that it was definitely a McClelland blend, which is NOT meant as an insult. My point was that, to my tastes, MClelland's latakia blends bear little resemblance to those made by other blenders because of the VAs they use (as well as their characeristic mildness). Hanna's mixtures, on the other hand, somehow seemed to transcend that and ended up reminding me of some classic English/Balkan mixtures. Now that you mention it,though, it night be time to finish up the tin of 3 Oaks ....
Of course, let me stress that I am speaking of my tastebuds only! To me, all of the McClelland's English blends end up tasting like one variation or another of British Woods or Frog Morton (with the exceptions noted above). The VAs have such a distinctive and sweet flavor to my palate that they all end up singing much the same song. It's a nice song, but I just don't get much variation. I'll add, however, that I am definitely one of those smokers who tastes "ketchup" in most McC's products, and I'e gotten the impression that many smokers don't detect it at all. YMMV, of course.

 

[jj1015]

Balkan Sobranie Smoking Mixture is, IMHO, a poster child example of something that's famous because it's famous.

Lane Ltd. was a good enough distributor that you could find it nearly anywhere ; even in places where it was the only non-codger-burley-in-a-pouch offered. Compared with what people were used to, it was the tobacco from Mars, and expensive to boot. But its iconic tin came to achieve near-universal recognition by dint of ubiquity.

There were (opinion) better tobaccos then (first tin 1968). Further : even if its original incarnation would magically re-appear, after the excitement of it died down and the buzz subsided, its place in the pantheon of popular imagination would not be (opinion again) be what it is today. It would be good stuff indeed, but it would not be occupying the throne of Zeus. (That spot would be filled, of course by Balkan Sobranie Virginian No. 10). (Or, for those to whom older = better, according to taste, by the original Bankers, FVF, Orient Express, Three Nuns, London Mixture . . . ).

IMHO, spot me BSVa10 and I'll go with GLP

:face:

without having tried any versions produced before 1990, I'm inclined to agree with you. I remember buying pouches and large tins of BS at Kroger, Walgreens, CVS, etc. It was the only blend with latakia that could be bought outside of tobacconists that specialized in pipes! Back then, at least in my neck of the woods, even in pipe shops it was the tinned only English option besides the Dunhills. Many shops had "house" bulk Englishes, but that was it. I smoked a good amount of BS because I liked it more than the Dunhill line, but I wasn't exactly in love with it.
I can easily believe, based on the descriptions I've read of its evolving contents, that it was an entirely different beast in prior decades. But the stuff I smoked wasn't even in the same class as blends like Odyssey, Abingdon, Magnum Opus, Wilderness, or many others I could name.

 

[Anonymous]

I suppose there is always Key Largo.

Incited by http://glpease.com/BriarAndLeaf/?p=41 there is a half-pound tin of 2007 Robusto slumbering in the study, awaiting its time.

Some tobaccos just grab you, and some don't. KL never did Sometimes people's tastes are goofy. I attribute the failure to my end.

Hugely looking forward to Russ' take on BSVa10.

:face:

 

[sand18f]

I don't know the reason for his abscence, but it was unfortunate that the Dark Lord himself, whose description of Balkan Sobranie as the all-time legendary blend is often quoted, did not participate or was not included in the throwdown. Maybe if someone whose stock of Syrian latakia did not burn down could have lent him some, he could have contributed an entry into the competition.

Check post number six of this thread. 8)

Bill

 

[babysinister]

I don't know the reason for his abscence, but it was unfortunate that the Dark Lord himself, whose description of Balkan Sobranie as the all-time legendary blend is often quoted, did not participate or was not included in the throwdown. Maybe if someone whose stock of Syrian latakia did not burn down could have lent him some, he could have contributed an entry into the competition.

Bill

Ah yes, a lot on his plate. I did read that. 8)

 

[ZuluCollector]

Russ was the judges choice. With McClelland 2nd. It was close. McClelland was the People's Choice. Kind of unknown how long the X, Y, Z samples may have been in plastic bags waiting to be handled out. That may have affected the People's Choice. It was a good time. The thoughts and comments by all were interesting. Thanks to the clubs involved. Kind of came together in a fairly short time which makes me wonder what might have happened if they had started a year earlier.

Carlos, I thought it might be helpful if I posted some facts, here. First, the vote wasn't close at all. There was a big spread between first and seccond places.

The samples were in bags one night. The Guss brothers and friends put them in bags the night before.

The event actually had quite a bit of time to come together. I received my invitation to judge on the 3rd of February. The event was incredibly well-planned and organized. I really can't see that starting a year earlier would have changed anything at all with respect to organization.

Finally, only the judges had the baseline Balkan Sobranie sample to compare against the contestant blends. Our charge was to determine that contestant blend that was closest to the original Balkan Sobranie 759.

The People's Choice was a beauty contest, period. We don't have any idea (nor do the voters) whether the People's Choice voters smoked all three samples or not, or at all. All we know is that ballots came in over the space of one and a half days time. The judges had several weeks to compare. I smoked all three blends (and nothing else) for weeks.

 

[ravkesef]

Neill,
Thank you so much for your reply; it underscored the difficult task of a judge: to judge the facts of the case without regard to other factors. The way you described the judging process indicates that it was a dispassionate matter amongst the judges, in which the contestants were compared to the original, and the winner selected by that criterion alone. During the past year and a half I've smoked 3 tins of #759 that I had squirreled away (actually, 4 tins got packed during a move 30 years ago, were forgotten, and only recently came to light.) As a result of my recent discovery, my palate is still resonating to the original, and, quite frankly, when I opened the winner, the smell, and then the taste were, to me at least, indistinguishable from that old pipe dream. And thank you, too, Neill, for describing the People's Choice as a beauty contest. Who knows--it may be "better" than the winner--whatever that means, but the judges declared that the winner hews closest to the line of what the original was. Thank you, Neill, and to the all the judges, for all your hard work--if smoking things that taste just like Balkan Sobranie could be termed "hard work."

The upshot--after all these years, we now have a tobacco that is close enough to the original to satisfy many of us. In fact, we have two tobaccos. Perhaps the tobacco blending world has moved beyond the legendary #759, as St. Gregory points out, but for us nostalgia buffs, and yes--die-hards--the contest was a beautiful thing, well-planned, well orchestrated, and let it be said: well judged.

Oh--and by the way--that 4th tin? It sits in a place of honor on a shelf, awaiting its day. Perhaps tomorrow, next year, or whenever the doctor tells me not to buy any green bananas.

Eric

 

[Kapnismologist]

Too bad nobody thought to video the event.

 

[Carlos]

Hi Neill! Sorry, I mis-spoke. There was a difference between the judges choice and the crowd's choices. I thought the crowd's choices seemed to be much closer. There was only a small amount of the original available for purchase to the crowd. Only the judges really were able to compare to the original in a meaningful way. I thought you and the other judges did a super job.

I still think that it would have been more interesting for the blenders to have had more time to work up their blends and age them over plenty of time. Not being a blender myself, it is hard for me to picture them being able to experiment with pressing and aging. Steaming or toasting different component tobaccos to get them to be harmonious in time.

Pat on the back for the fellows to put those samples together so quickly. Knowing that they did not sit in plastic bags for a long time is interesting. Glad you clarified that for us. From the number handed out it was hard to imagine that being done so quickly.

The organization of the event was first rate. I would love to see something like this every year.

I really thought there was some video being done. But I was in the back.

 

[blendtobac]

Actually, we did have enough time to try some of the techniques to "artificially age" the components. In Blackhouse, I toasted some of the red Virginia. Pressing wouldn't have been a good idea from an appearance viewpoint, as that was one of the judging categories.
Of course, more time might have been helpful, but maybe not, as I might have overthought the process and made things worse, but I can't speak for my fellow competitors.

Russ