Dunhill - Kohlhase & Kopp

[Aristokles]

Listening to tonight's pipesmagazine.com radio show I learn that Kohlhase & Kopp has taken over contract production of the BATCO (Reynolds American) owned Dunhill Tobacco line, taking it over from Orlik.

When did this happen?

I spend too much time complaining about my old MM965 and Orlik and so when I noted that London Mixture seemed to change recently I just kept my fingers off the keyboard and my big mouth shut (clamped firmly on my pipe as I adjusted to new taste profile for LM) but I am curious now as to whether the change I THINK I detect is new blender production, Orlik variance, or just ME (which would be no surprise, I guess).

Anyone know? Or did I miss this here somewhere?

 

[lestrout]

Aris - apparently the DH Orlik>K&K thang has been cooking away quietly for some time. Very little sturm und drang this time, which is curious in itself. I didn't use to like London Mixture, and a couple of Newark/New York shows ago, LouZ called my attention to the new (at the time) Orlik iteration. I puffed it and it was just ok, which was always my general impression.

A few weeks ago, I opened up a tin and this time around I am very taken with LM. Now I have been concentrating on VA, VA/Per and Oriental blends quite a bit, so I wonder if my palate has been acclimated to the likes of LM.

hp
les

 

[Aristokles]

Aris - apparently the DH Orlik>K&K thang has been cooking away quietly for some time. Very little sturm und drang this time, which is curious in itself. I didn't use to like London Mixture, and a couple of Newark/New York shows ago, LouZ called my attention to the new (at the time) Orlik iteration. I puffed it and it was just ok, which was always my general impression.

A few weeks ago, I opened up a tin and this time around I am very taken with LM. Now I have been concentrating on VA, VA/Per and Oriental blends quite a bit, so I wonder if my palate has been acclimated to the likes of LM.

hp
les

It's not your imagination. My last three tins of LM have had a greatly increased amount of really fine orientals. I thought it was me and went this week to get more. Same deal. I liked the Orlik but whatever is being blended, and by whomever, for it now is superb.

 

[monbla256]

Aris - apparently the DH Orlik>K&K thang has been cooking away quietly for some time. Very little sturm und drang this time, which is curious in itself. I didn't use to like London Mixture, and a couple of Newark/New York shows ago, LouZ called my attention to the new (at the time) Orlik iteration. I puffed it and it was just ok, which was always my general impression.

A few weeks ago, I opened up a tin and this time around I am very taken with LM. Now I have been concentrating on VA, VA/Per and Oriental blends quite a bit, so I wonder if my palate has been acclimated to the likes of LM.

hp
les

It's not your imagination. My last three tins of LM have had a greatly increased amount of really fine orientals. I thought it was me and went this week to get more. Same deal. I liked the Orlik but whatever is being blended, and by whomever, for it now is superb.

Aristokles, I'm glad to hear this as I used to smoke LM back in the '70s ( it's what led me to 759 ) and really liked it. I'm going to have to put a tin in next months 'bac order now :twisted:

 

[Wet Dottle]

Is there a way to make out Orlik from K&K tins?

 

[monbla256]

Is there a way to make out Orlik from K&K tins?

Yes, when you open them, K&K has started using their paper top liner at least on the latest Ratray's tins I've recently gotten. As for Dunhill, even back when they shifted ALL tinned 'bac production to Murray's there was no indication, packaging wise, that it was NOT made in Jemyn St. I would imagine K&K will continue this practice as Orlik did as well strictly because of the "branding" issue for marketing purposes. And I've never seen or been aware of any way other than by the tin itself back in the 60's/70's that you could tell from the outside of the tin itself! I would imagine the best way would be to but some, open it and smoke it :twisted:

 

[Aristokles]

Is there a way to make out Orlik from K&K tins?

Yes, when you open them, K&K has started using their paper top liner at least on the latest Ratray's tins I've recently gotten. As for Dunhill, even back when they shifted ALL tinned 'bac production to Murray's there was no indication, packaging wise, that it was NOT made in Jemyn St. I would imagine K&K will continue this practice as Orlik did as well strictly because of the "branding" issue for marketing purposes. And I've never seen or been aware of any way other than by the tin itself back in the 60's/70's that you could tell from the outside of the tin itself! I would imagine the best way would be to but some, open it and smoke it :twisted:

K&K is doing that on their Caminetto and Ashton products as well? Not that I've seen.

 

[lestrout]

Wouldn't Orlik tins be marked as made in Denmark, vs K&K in Germany?

hp
les

 

[monbla256]

Can't say about Camineto or Ashton 'bacs as i don't smoke any of theirs, but the last two Rattray's 'bacs I have bought did have the K&K top liner in 'em. As for Orlick's tins, they do state that the tobacco is made in Denmark on the paper tag on the back but not directly on the tin. And all the Dunhill tins I've bought since the mid/late 70's have stated that the tobacco is " ... manufactured in the EU under authority of Dunhill Tobacco of London Limited." So unless you have some inside info, seems there's no way to figure out WHERE the 'bac is blended from what is on the tins :twisted:

 

[Wet Dottle]

Monbla,

I asked because there has always been a clue or two concerning the origin of Dunhill tins. Loring's page is a good source, but only for older tins. For example, there is a way to distinguish Murray's from Orlik's tins (I think it has to do with the shape of the rims). I was just thinking that perhaps one of the Sherlocks in the forum might have deciphered the mystery already. Lestrout may have a good clue there...

 

[monbla256]

Monbla,

I asked because there has always been a clue or two concerning the origin of Dunhill tins. Loring's page is a good source, but only for older tins. For example, there is a way to distinguish Murray's from Orlik's tins (I think it has to do with the shape of the rims). I was just thinking that perhaps one of the Sherlocks in the forum might have deciphered the mystery already. Lestrout may have a good clue there...

I just checked out what you stated about the Murray tins vs Orlik and from the several Murray tins I still have with screws and such in 'em and even a couple of earlier Dunhil tins I took off the top to a current 965 top and was able to screw it down tightly on the two earlier tins. As specialised a shape as 50g vacum tins are, I would imagine that one or mabe two firms manufacture tins for ALL the blenders. I would imagine that over the last 3 decades much of the packaging of tobacco's has gotten quite generic . The only tins I know that this would not work with would be the British tins made and used when Brit 'bacs were sold in ounces not metric grams which would have been back in the 60's and back. I know that one discernable difference tin wise, btwn the Murray tins and the Orlik's is that the Murray tin tops were colored with a tan color background and the lettering was printed directly on the tin.(965 as well as the blues and reds used on other blends) was this way with ALL the Dunhill blends back then, but Orlik started using printed paper labels to be glued to the gold tins tops, That may be the difference you were refering to.

 

[Aristokles]

Can't say about Camineto or Ashton 'bacs as i don't smoke any of theirs, but the last two Rattray's 'bacs I have bought did have the K&K top liner in 'em. As for Orlick's tins, they do state that the tobacco is made in Denmark on the paper tag on the back but not directly on the tin. And all the Dunhill tins I've bought since the mid/late 70's have stated that the tobacco is " ... manufactured in the EU under authority of Dunhill Tobacco of London Limited." So unless you have some inside info, seems there's no way to figure out WHERE the 'bac is blended from what is on the tins :twisted:

Never tried any Rattray's products, and so I can't say. All of my Dunhill tins from the original purchase upon reentry a couple years ago until now simply state made in he E.U. as yours are worded. No mention of Denmark anywhere on tin, including paper labels or top liner.

I would not expect to readily be able to tell the originating blender from a contractual configuration but am trying to find out the date of the switch from Orlik to K&K.

 

[Wet Dottle]

You may be right, Monbla. I bought a lifetime supply of my favorite Dunhill blends just before production moved to Orlik, therefore I've never even seen the Danish tins. I'm just going from what I read in some forums. But I would like to try the K&K version of London Mixture.

 

[monbla256]

You may be right, Monbla. I bought a lifetime supply of my favorite Dunhill blends just before production moved to Orlik, therefore I've never even seen the Danish tins. I'm just going from what I read in some forums. But I would like to try the K&K version of London Mixture.

I still have some unopened tins ( 8 ) from the pre-Murray days ( pre 1980 when they started blending Dunhill 'bacs) with the deco lower case printed dunhill logo on them. I bought out the stock from a B&M that was closing back in '82, easy way to try some of the newer K&K version, order some :twisted:
Here's what they looked like:

 

[Wobbly McSnort]

Wouldn't Orlik tins be marked as made in Denmark, vs K&K in Germany?

hp
les

My Dunhill tins say made in the EU and do not designate country.

 

[Aristokles]

You may be right, Monbla. I bought a lifetime supply of my favorite Dunhill blends just before production moved to Orlik, therefore I've never even seen the Danish tins. I'm just going from what I read in some forums. But I would like to try the K&K version of London Mixture.

I still have some unopened tins ( 8 ) from the pre-Murray days ( pre 1980 when they started blending Dunhill 'bacs) with the deco lower case printed dunhill logo on them. I bought out the stock from a B&M that was closing back in '82, easy way to try some of the newer K&K version, order some :twisted:
Here's what they looked like:

Hmmmm. I don't remember those EU symbols in those days. I DO remember the 2/4 ounce tins vs. these 50/100 gram things (as if we had a 100 gr option now).

But your photos do touch some nostalgic bone somewhere, I think.

 

[monbla256]

Aristokles,
The EU wasn't officially establishd until 1993, the 'e' was the symbol for the Common Market that was in effect back in the 70's/80's and Britain, though not a memeber, sold goods in it back then. It was started back in 1957 on the Continent and eventualli became the EEC in '93. .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Economic_Community

 

[Aristokles]

Aristokles,
The EU wasn't officially establishd until 1993, the 'e' was the symbol for the Common Market that was in effect back in the 70's/80's and Britain, though not a memeber, sold goods in it back then. It was started back in 1957 on the Continent and eventualli became the EEC in '93. .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Economic_Community

Thanks for history lesson. I just tossed an old Royal Yacht tin from that era. Wish I'd kept it now. Did the same with a Mac Baren Plumcake one, too.

 

[monbla256]

I was wrong about the "e", but it was connected to the Common market but refered to the wieght. Found this about it and it looks like that was used back in the 70's/80's though. I keep all my old tins as they are just right for small "junk" storage

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_sign

 

[Aristokles]

I was wrong about the "e", but it was connected to the Common market but refered to the wieght. Found this about it and it looks like that was used back in the 70's/80's though. I keep all my old tins as they are just right for small "junk" storage

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_sign

I have since ceased tossing them. Wife seems to find uses for them. What exactly I do not know and am afraid to ask.