How many members within this forum....

[Lonecoyote]

Have severe issues falling asleep or once finally sleeping, staying asleep? I'm on some heavy duty prescription sleeping pills but only take one every third day. Even then I have difficulties staying asleep. The next day you feel like a ZOMBIE from lack of sleep due to the medication still in your system. Just slept less than 3.5 hours whilst listening to my Rain, Rain app with " Rain Forest " relaxing me in the background and still wake up exhausted. If it was not for this app my sleep habits would/could have been under 2 hours.
I never nap, for if I do I'm up all night. This has been part of my life for over 12 years. Oh, went through a sleep study five years ago and all I was told " you don't have sleep apnea " but you do suffer from insomnia, like I already didn't know that!



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[Hermit]

I'm almost nocturnal.   (I'm posting at four AM, finishing my last bowl.  :roll: )
I get to sleep, but I have to piss every two hours.   :|
I usually get six, mebbie seven, hours, but not in a row.
If I have to get to sleep early, in order to get up early,
I take a Temazepam.  They work for me and I don't feel hung over.

 

[ftrplt]

I feel your pain, LC!!! Welcome to your "Senior" years!! I fall asleep, wake up for whatever reason, then have one hell of a time getting back to sleep. Some nights are better/worse than others. I finally get back to sleep about "R.I.M." time (0500), then the wife's alarm goes off at seven!! Right now, I'm also recovering from some eye surgery; the itching and other discomfort is no help in falling asleep!! As Betty Davis told Johnny Carson many years ago..."Old age is no place for sissies!!" 'Tis true!! Hang in there!! :cheers: FTRPLT

 

[hobie1dog]

I finally tossed in the towel 2 years ago and went on Ambien Zolipidem generic otherwise I would lay in bed remembering every mistake I've made in my life. I only take 6 mg which will allow me to get to sleep, but not feel drowsy in the morning.

 

[Lonecoyote]

I finally tossed in the towel 2 years ago and went on Ambien Zolipidem generic otherwise I would lay in bed remembering every mistake I've made in my life. I only take 6 mg which will allow me to get to sleep, but not feel drowsy in the morning.

I'm also on the Generic " ZOLPIDEM " 12.5mg time release. Still can't get more than 4 hours of sleep. The sleep I get is mostly broken sleep. Has nothing to do with that urge to use the bathroom.  



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[Brewdude]

Ted

I usually have no problems falling asleep, but wake up frequently over the course of the night - sometimes 3-5 times or more. And some of those times make it difficult to get back to sleep as my mind starts churning. Plus like Herm I have to pee anywhere from 2-4 times.

Don't take any sleep meds and not inclined to at this point. Just figure it's due to getting older. Although if I reduced my beer consumption in the eve I could prolly also drop the piss events as well! But of course that will not happen anytime soon!!

:tongue:



Cheers,

RR

 

[Lonecoyote]

PEE ISSUE

IF THAT'S AN ISSUE FOR A FEW OF YOU...do what my grandfather did...keep a large non-breakable jar on the floor nearby...you can figure out the rest. He always said.." if you don't get out of bed to pee, you will fall back to sleep faster "! Or a medical urinal that's used in hospitals which would be readily available at any medical supplier. Even comes with an angle spout and handle.



KEEP ON SLEEPING!!!

 

[Ozark Wizard]

Stress is about the only thing that will keep me up or prevent me from returning to sleep after the three AM evacuation. Otherwise, the body clock says 7 hours. Never needed an alarm unless I was up late. More beer, more sleep.

 

[fishnbanjo]

I don't generally have sleep issues unless I have severe episodes from my neurological disorder then I may not sleep for up to two days from the pain it causes. If it's just a normal I can't sleep thing Melatonin, which is an OTC , helps tremendously or one Benadryl since I get that for my ivIG infusion and my every other month maintenance, I fall asleep for 5 hours then need to be physically awakened to leave and will most often nap another 2-3 hours post infusion.
banjo

 

[Lonecoyote]

Banjo, I know how you feel when the pain hits. My heart goes out to you. In 2011 I was diagnosed with small fiber ( non-diabetic ) peripheral neuropathy and the pain and burning can be unbearable at times. My neuropathy was caused by exposure to high levels of radiation which was job related. So, between the pain and the stress with new health issues it's a wonder I sleep two hours a night.
Have a great Sunday and enjoy your pipes :cheers: :cheers:



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[hobie1dog]

Banjo, I know how you feel when the pain hits. My heart goes out to you. In 2011 I was diagnosed with small fiber ( non-diabetic ) peripheral neuropathy and the pain and burning can be unbearable at times. My neuropathy was caused by exposure to high levels of radiation which was job related. So, between the pain and the stress with new health issues it's a wonder I sleep two hours a night.
Have a great Sunday and enjoy your pipes  :cheers: :cheers:



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Mine is a genetic and idiopathic poyneuropathy, so no known cause. Tested positive for PMP-22 genetic mutation, came out of nowhere at 58

 

[Zeno Marx]

I absolutely understand. I wish people who don't have sleep issues could empathize more. I understand them not understanding, but geez, give those of us who do a break, please. It's not as if we want or choose to fight sleep.

I'm also one of those people who has always been nocturnal. As a child, the daylight made me sleepy. I was wide awake at night, and I'm most productive in the dark. I go in phases now. Sometimes, I can fall asleep on a dime. Sometimes, I can't get to sleep no matter how exhausted I am. If and when I manage to get asleep, if I get woken up (is that proper English?), I can't get back to sleep unless I do something (anything) for close to an hour. I need a full reset of sorts. The worst...the worst, though...is not being able to sleep more than 2-4 hours at a time. This, however, is a newer problem as an adult. When I was a child, once I fell asleep, I could sleep for twelve hours straight. Not anymore. After a maximum of around four hours, I might as well get up and start the day...for a while, because as you can imagine, only getting four hours of sleep means you are a constant slave to exhaustion. I'm constantly planning when I can take a nap, which also means I'm often distracted by the idea of finding time to sleep. Thank goodness for naps. I need a couple a day just to get through it all. I'd get sick if I only stuck to larger blocks of sleep. My body starts to break down.

I religiously work out 5-6 times a week. For a long time, the technique they used to fight headaches in Mask (movie from 1985 with Cher) would help me fall asleep. Imagine something. Break it down to smaller and smaller and smaller particulars. It's a quasi-meditative process that ultimately tries to remove any noise and physical disturbances (like anxiety and brain chemical stuff). It's also related to what Pirsig talks about in Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance with the classical vs. romantic modes. Breaking things down to specifics and function and form. Anyway...getting sidetracked here.

In my experience, people without sleep disorders lack empathy and get very frustrated with those who do. You can just do this or do that. It's an easy diagnosis and remedy to them. It's not.

 

[Vito]

...If and when I manage to get asleep, if I get woken up...I can't get back to sleep unless I do something (anything) for close to an hour. I need a full reset of sorts.

Yup...sounds familiar. Fortunately, it doesn't happen as much as it used to...but when it does happen, I can always tell that it's futile to waste time even trying to get back to sleep. I might as well get up and get something accomplished while my body does a reset.

I've been a wired kinda guy for most of my life. My mom told me that when I was a little kid (like age 3) I would get up in the middle of the night and go into the kitchen and play with the pots and pans. In the periods during which my sleep patterns have been most stable, I've generally slept 4.5 to 6 hours per night, and that's been plenty to get me through the day without being tired.

Anyhow, within the past several months I've settled into a fairly regular pattern wherein I sleep between ~midnight to 6:00 a.m. Two things have changed:

1. I started taking gabapentin (100 mg.) (the generic version of Neurontin<img class="emojione" alt="" title=":registered:" title=":registered:" src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/emojione/assets/png/00ae.png?v=2.2.7"/>) which was originally used to control epilepsy (I'm not epileptic), but is increasingly being prescribed to control other neuropathic conditions, such as nerve pain. I've been struggling with back pain for the last few years, and there's no surgical solution. I finally found a very smart pain management specialist, and he prescribed the gabapentin.
   
2. I use controlled, focused breathing—a technique I learned in Zen meditation training to slow my heart rate. When used in conjunction with relaxing music, I conk out pronto, and generally stay conked until I have to get up to drain the trouser snake. As long as I'm not close to 6-hour mark, I can easily get back to sleep.

Now, I realize that everyone is different, so I'm not saying that what works for me will help anyone else. In fact, I’m not typical. The pain doc who prescribed the gabapentin told me it usually knocks out most folks when they take it, but it doesn't do that to me. I don’t feel drugged. As far as I can tell, the gabapentin helps because it mitigates the increasing back pain I've been struggling with for the last few years.

I think the thing that helps me most is the focused breathing. The "focused" part is the key. It takes concentration to focus on breathing at a slow, deliberate pace, and that precludes my running the Daily Review<img class="emojione" alt="" title=":tm:" title=":tm:" src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/emojione/assets/png/2122.png?v=2.2.7"/> program, wherein the mind is constantly replaying events of the previous day, or trying to solve some problem...or whatever. I can’t get to sleep unless I slow my heart rate and quiet my mind. It’s actually a skill, and I had to work at it to develop it.

The best part is, no side effects. I used to take antihistamines to help me get to sleep and stay asleep, but then they found that most antihistamines are suspected as an Alzheimer's disease precursor. I don't need that.

...After a maximum of around four hours, I might as well get up and start the day...for a while, because as you can imagine, only getting four hours of sleep means you are a constant slave to exhaustion...

Actually, it depends on how you're wired, and especially on the quality of your sleep. I did just fine on 4.5 hours for several decades...that is, until I developed sleep apnea. Then I really was "a constant slave to exhaustion", and no amount of sleep was enough to remedy it. In fact, the more I slept, the more exhausted I was, because my brain was starved for oxygen.

The sleep study found that I was breathing for only about 33 seconds out of every minute. If I got any more than four hours of sleep under those conditions I woke up with a pounding headache. Fortunately, my sleep apnea was obstructive, so surgery solved it. But other causes require different solutions.

In any case, sometimes I still wake up after 4.5 hours, and I'm fine. I just get up when I wake up. But everyone's wired differently. All I can say is that, when a sleep disorder was messing up my life, I got help. I went to the St. Jude Sleep Disorders Institute, and they diagnosed and cured my sleep apnea.

The point is that there actually are competent doctors who know about sleep disorders, and it won't hurt to find out whether they can help. If they can't, you're no worse off than you are now; if they can, it makes life a whole lot bettah. :mrgreen:

 

[fishnbanjo]

Vito, I take 900 Mg 3 times a day so that's 2700 Mg/day and it does not affect me since it's obviously needed by my body to keep the neurological disorder in check, all I know is that is a lot of Gabapentin!
banjo

 

[Vito]

Vito, I take 900 Mg 3 times a day so that's 2700 Mg/day and it does not affect me since it's obviously needed by my body to keep the neurological disorder in check, all I know is that is a lot of Gabapentin!
banjo

Wow...that's a lot, amigo. I can't even imagine what that's like. But I have no difficulty imagining what it's like to not be able to sleep onna counta pain. I've been dealing with that for years, and it was getting worse until I started seeing the pain doc in May.

Actually, I'm seeing two pain docs; the other one prescribed (dare I say it?) medical marijuana. I had been hearing about it for years, but I rejected the idea because of my own ignorance. I assumed that taking medical marihoochie would mean smoking some killer weed and getting stoned, and that definitely wouldn't work for me. I think for a living, and I need my mind clear.

But I was taking other pain meds (Fiorinal and oxycodone), and they weren't cutting it. I didn't want to take more opioids, because I know where that one goes...and I don't want to go there. I was desperate, so I went to pain doc #2, who's in the same office as pain doc #1. As it turns out, there's no smokage involved. The compounds are in an oil that I take as sub-lingual drops, and there's no stonation involved. I've actually cut my oxy usage.

I'm also re-evaluating my diet. Certain foods are inflammatory, and the kind of pain I've got involves inflammation; I need to cut those out. Other foods are anti-inflammatory; I need more of those. There's much to learn, but anything I can do to cut down on the drugs and still reduce the pain is worth doing.

Of course, I'm not saying any of that would work for you. But I'm curious...have any of your doctors suggested that there might be a connection between your diet and your pain? None of mine did...well, except pain doc #1, and only after I mentioned it.

I've had to do all my own research (with Mrs. Vito's help), and it's not a simple task. There are so many different opinions about the connections between nutrition and disease, it's not easy sorting it out. In many ways, the medical profession suffers from serious institutional inertia. Anyone who bucks The System™ is considered a quack. And of course, there really are a lotta quacks hawking all kinds of miracle cures based on mumbo jumbo.

Anyhow, I feel for you, bro'. I can relate to anyone who's suffering from an ailment that the doctors can't cure. Too many of them practice medicine as a ritual (the standard "procedures"), and not as a science.

 

[Lonecoyote]

I'm also on a dosage of Gabapentin @ 900mg X 3 times daily. Also obvious the Neuropathy pain is absorbing any side effects, like being sleepy or constantly falling asleep. That's besides the pain meds I'm taking as of now. I've been on Keytruda for 6 months prior to it being approved by the FDA, for another health issue. Now on another " STUDY " medication that's taken intravenously.

I've been through two sleep studies and was told by the doctor..." your pain and anxiety is keeping you awake "! My response: Well, no kidding and I laughed. So besides the oral pain meds I'm also on a time release pain patch that's changed daily. Another doctor prescribed Ambien 12.5 time release sleeping pills 7 days a week, but I only take 1 every third night. For when I take the Ambein I might get 3.5 hours of sleep but feel like a ZOMBIE the next day from the medication being in my system, with all the other meds I'm on.

Once I finally fall asleep I'm woken up do to stress and/or anxiety not knowing what's going to happen next with my health. Will I be rushed by ambulance again to the hospital, or will I wake up the next day due to all the meds I'm on!

I thank God I'm still here on a everyday basis and also thank God that I can still enjoy my Grandchildren, pipes and tobacco's.

It's been very difficult and trying times in the past 6 years but more so in the past 3 months due to another health issue. But I remain positive and somehow still keep a smile on my face.

I truly understand and have prior to me being ill exactly how frustrating it is for any person with sleep issues. It's called compassion!!



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[Zeno Marx]

...After a maximum of around four hours, I might as well get up and start the day...for a while, because as you can imagine, only getting four hours of sleep means you are a constant slave to exhaustion...

Actually, it depends on how you're wired, and especially on the quality of your sleep. I did just fine on 4.5 hours for several decades...that is, until I developed sleep apnea. Then I really was "a constant slave to exhaustion", and no amount of sleep was enough to remedy it. In fact, the more I slept, the more exhausted I was, because my brain was starved for oxygen.

This is a good point. For most of my life, four hours sleep was plenty. I was going to bed at 2:30AM and waking up at 7AM. I might need to sleep until noon on Saturday to catch up, but during the week, I felt good and never got sick. The body and mind were good in that four hour range. Then, about ten years ago, that all changed. I now need 6-7 hours per day. Doesn't really matter how I get it. One chunk at night with a couple solid naps or whatever. But like I said, now I'm always calculating when I can get those naps.

I can't remember where, but last week I read that NASA has determined that 26 minutes is the optimum nap amount.

I believe I've always had sleep problems, but when young, it didn't matter. They didn't affect me. It's a lot different now that I'm getting older. I used to spend a lot of time in a tent and backpacking, and my partners said I didn't snore (I asked). But maybe you're right. Maybe I'm running into breathing problems.

 

[Lonecoyote]

Most definitely if your sleeping issue has nothing to do with pain or anxiety/stress by all means go for a sleep study. It could be sleep apnea and with that diagnosis there is a cure/treatments and you will be sleeping well in no time. A friend of mine was recently diagnosed with sleep apnea and the outcome... he sleeps 7 to 8 hours a night now.



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[Vito]

...I used to spend a lot of time in a tent and backpacking, and my partners said I didn't snore (I asked). But maybe you're right. Maybe I'm running into breathing problems.

Zeno:

Although snoring can be a symptom of obstructive sleep apnea, you can have sleep apnea without snoring. Sleep apnea simply means that you stop breathing while you're sleeping. Mrs. Vito noticed me doing it, and she became alarmed when she noticed, "Hmmm...he's not breathing...(20 seconds goes by)...what the...? He's still not breathing!" So she told me to wake up and go to sleep.

In my case, it was complicated. One day, I was looking at my throat in the mirror for some reason, and I noticed that my throat was asymmetrical; it was kind of pushed in toward the center on the left side. At that point, I didn't connect it with the sleep problem.

I mentioned it when I went for the sleep study, and the doctor said, "Uh-oh...that's not normal." I had an MRI, and they found a tumor growing on a nerve in the skull base area. It was like a small sausage, 2 cm. diameter and 7 cm. long. I called it Fred.

Meanwhile, I went ahead with the sleep study, and they freaked out. They told me, "The worst sleep apnea we usually see here is called 'severe'. Yours is worse; it's 'life threatening'." They told me to call whomever was going to drive me home. I said, "What are you talking about? I'm driving myself home." They replied, "WHAT? You mean you actually DRIVE?" "Yeah...so what?", I said. "What's the big deal?"

Long story short, they wouldn't let me leave until I signed a release saying that they had advised me not to drive, and that were not responsible for anything that happened to me if I drove myself home. "You really shouldn't drive", was the message. But hey, it's surprising what you can get used to...even being a constant slave to exhaustion.

Anyhow, they scheduled surgery and got Fred outa there. It helped, but six months later I was back in for another sleep study. Getting rid of Fred didn't completely solve the problem. I had a second surgery that removed some of the soft tissue from the back of my throat and fixed a deviated septum. I had the Sore Throat From Hell for a few days, but the sleep apnea was gone.

But that was obstructive sleep apnea. There's also central sleep apnea, which is a nervous system thing. They have non-surgical ways of dealing with both, depending on the severity of the problem. All of that would come out of a sleep study.

I'm not a medical doctor, but it seems noteworthy that you would go to needing 6 to 7 hours of sleep after needing only 4 to 5 hours for so many years. Unless there has been some obvious corresponding change in your physiology or physical activity, it seems likely that there's something else going on, especially if you're exhausted every day.

It might not be sleep apnea. I have a friend who was always exhausted, and it turned out he had some weird intestinal parasite that (according to the doctor) is commonly found in dirt...you know—soil. It was fairly simple to treat and cure. But there are many other possible causes, from nutrient imbalance to mitochondrial dysfunction.

Whatever the cause, you work out regularly, and it sounds like you're not a couch potato. Unless your diet totally sucks, you shouldn't be exhausted. It might be wise to check it out with a qualified medicine man, amigo. :mrgreen:

 

[hobie1dog]

Had first sleep apnea surgery in 1990 and was successful. Ten years later had second more extensive surgery that was a failure. Been using a CPAP machine for the last 17 years. Funny how much neuropathy and sleeping problems this small group has.