mile high club, keeping a cellar at altitude

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gandalfpc

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Ok, I have been sealing my tins with paraffin just to be safe, and recently decided to try to do without the wax.

Put tins into jars and coolers, waited a few days, gave them all the sniff test.

None are passing the test.

Now it could be that a high percentage of tins leak (I have 4 to 9 per container) so I am going to isolate as many as I can to get a meaningful percentage...

What I am wondering at this point - is the fact I live 5000+ over sea level the culprit?

Any other mile high brothers notice such a phenomena?
 
gandalfpc":4rpr14vk said:
Ok, I have been sealing my tins with paraffin just to be safe, and recently decided to try to do without the wax.

Put tins into jars and coolers, waited a few days, gave them all the sniff test.

None are passing the test.

Now it could be that a high percentage of tins leak (I have 4 to 9 per container) so I am going to isolate as many as I can to get a meaningful percentage...

What I am wondering at this point - is the fact I live 5000+ over sea level the culprit?

Any other mile high brothers notice such a phenomena?
Dang Gandalf, just a few days! I may just be a lowly flatlander but I really think a true test would be like... longer? You have your head in the clouds bro? Hey that's purdy good! 5,000 ft. head in the clouds.. sorry, I'll be quiet.
 
Longer would be the test if there were no smell, but all types of tins are failing the test very quickly, meaning that a fairly decent amount of aroma is sneaking out.

From noggins, pipesandcigars and smoking pipes, round and square, variety of manufacturers - Some faint, some strong, but at least one tin in each jar was leaking.

I will separate a bunch into individual jars to get better info...
 
Piet & I are in Pretoria at 4500' ASL. I haven't noticed any tobacco smells in the cupboard I store my cellar in but now you've got me wondering.
 
gandalfpc":9rwxuwk1 said:
Longer would be the test if there were no smell, but all types of tins are failing the test very quickly, meaning that a fairly decent amount of aroma is sneaking out.

From noggins, pipesandcigars and smoking pipes, round and square, variety of manufacturers - Some faint, some strong, but at least one tin in each jar was leaking.

I will separate a bunch into individual jars to get better info...
Gandy, you are my intellectual hero! :cheers: :cheers: Keep us posted my good wizard.
 
It could cause an initial leaking of the seals, as I'll assume most tobacco blenders are located at a lower altitude than you're at. And even though they are vacuum sealed, the strength of that "suction" should be based on a comparison to the outside ambient air pressure, which would be inherently greater near sea level. As they were shipped to you at a higher altitude, with a lower ambient external air pressure, the vacuum inside would be less in comparison, therefore allowing for a greater chance of leakage?

If they're the square tins such as G&H or SG, I've had bad luck with them often becoming loose and loosing their vacuum seal.


Natch
 
I was thinking along the same lines as Natch. I grew up helping my mother can things from the garden. And, I've continued to can vegetables, soups and things as a grown man. Because of the differing amount of atmospheric pressure found at different elevations, all good canning books say to process at a certain pressure for a certain amount of time if you are below a certain elevation. Then, it will tell you that if you are above a certain elevation, you should increase the pressure or processing time by "X" amount.

To me, it would stand to reason that extra pressure or processing time is added for higher elevations so that a higher vacuum is created inside the jar, thereby making it less susceptible to loosing its seal under the lesser atmospheric pressure at the higher elevation. It would also seem reasonable to me to assume that the seal that is used on tobacco tins is not of as high quality as those used on canning jars. Plus, it is extremely doubtful to me that the vacuum inside the tin ever comes close to reaching the vacuum inside a canning jar that has been properly processed. Therefore, I would have to conclude that tobacco tins that were sealed at a lower elevation would definitely leak once exposed to a higher elevation for any length of time due to the significant decrease in the outside pressure that helps maintain the integrity of the seal... unless one does something to improve or protect the integrity of the seal.

Gandalf, by adding wax to the tin's seal, you are doing just that... improving and protecting the integrity of the seal. So, unless you begin buying tobacco that was packaged and stored at an elevation similar to yours, I would think you would do well to continue to add the wax to the seal!

I wish it were convenient for you to go from where you are to an elevation that was at least 3,000 feet less than yours, then back to your elevation. If it were convenient for you to do that, you could try an experiment that might prove mine and Natch's theory.

Using a container that was preferably made of glass (to prevent atmospheric pressure change from being absorbed by container's softer sides... ie. plastic), you would use water to fill it brimming full while at the lower elevation. You would then screw the lid on; but not very tight... just tight enough to prevent any water from leaking if you were to turn the container over. You would then make sure the lid and outside of the container was completely dry.

Since toilet paper quickly absorbs and shows signs of any moisture, wrap the container in a layer or two of toilet paper. Then, transport the container back to your elevation. Then, check the toilet paper for any signs where the water may have leaked from inside the container. If you discover moisture or dampness on the toilet paper... Natch and I are right. If there is never any sign that water leaked from the container, I have just wasted the crap out of my time and yours!!! :oops: :lol: But, I'd bet you'd discover that the container will leak once it is transported to the higher elevation!!

I don't know enough about physics to know what the difference would be between water leaking from a container and air leaking from the same container. But, knowing that it is easier to move air than it is to move water, I would also be willing to wager that the amount of air leakage from a container would be far greater than the amount of water that would leak from the same container under the same conditions.

I hope this made sense!! And, I hope it helps!!!

Robert
 
I did seal many mason jars near sea level prior to moving here, they were all empty.

Upon opening here the same thing happened that happens with many of my newly purchased jars.

When I open them they POP, loud, sending the lid flying on more than one occasion.

Whenever I open a new jar I do so slowly to let the air escape, but it managed to scare the carp out of me plenty before I learned better.

So I am supposing that even well sealed tins are not safe here, but I can't be sure how a partial vacuum will be effected, as the jars were all at normal pressure at sea level...
 
Sealed containers do a good job
of keeping air out, but not as good
keeping it in. The first time I flew
with an underwater camera housing,
I didn't leave it open. After landing,
I just about had to pry it open with
a screwdriver. I spose it depends
on how strong the seal is.
 
I was unable to find any that passed the smell test to my satisfaction - some very slight and may have been cross contamination though - in the end I thought it best to seal em all with wax and sleep soundly...

 
Gandalf,

I've had no problems with my tins. I don't jar them, either, just toss them as they are in a large box, like this:
tob112.jpg

Good luck!
 
gandalfpc":833z33uf said:
I was unable to find any that passed the smell test to my satisfaction - some very slight and may have been cross contamination though - in the end I thought it best to seal em all with wax and sleep soundly...
Glad to hear that you got your problem taken care of, brother! Sound, beneficial sleep is of the utmost importance. Without it, you couldn't enjoy your tobaccos anyway!! ;)

Robert
 
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