Personal Enjoyment and the Cost of the Pipe

[Amenhotep04]

Hey all, this is my first post here, but I've got a question. I've been smoking pipes for a little over 10 years now. I've got a collection of about 24 pipes. About 12 of those are Italian, hand made pipes, Viprati, Santambrogio, Pipi Croci, Mastro de Paja, Spanu, and Moretti. A few more are also American handmade. They all have either lucite or acrylic stems. The value of those pipes retail, and brand new are in the $150-$250 range, and God knows what they'd sell for on eBay. Recently I've been looking at pipes in the $400 - $1000 range going to pipe makers websites.

Now, I noticed a HUGE difference between the smoke of my early pipes, compared to the handmade pipes mentioned above. Does the quality of smoke increase with the amount of money spent? Is it a point of diminishing returns? Aesthetics? I realize there's some subjectivity there.

With that said however, I do have a yello-bole that I paid $5 for and it rocks. And my first pipe was a grab-bag little bent that is still in the rotation.

Anyway, thanks. :farao:

 

[Puff Daddy]

Is it a point of diminishing returns? Aesthetics?

IMHO, yes. First there's the necessity of good briar and good engineering (proper drilling and formation of the airway, tight tolerances in the mortise/shank gap, a well designed bit end) to make a good smoking pipe, and that takes skill, good materials and labor (read, ya gotta spend the time to do it right). These basic factors put you right into the $150 - $250 minimum range with a couple of exceptions like Stanwell and Peterson who can manage to put out some fine pipes for a bit less (though there can be a bit of a crap shoot with the drilling at times as, I believe, they rely on a set of design practices and allow for some slop here and there). You spend less you get less with regards to material quality, engineering aptitude and the slop factor. You spend more, you're now into the aesthetics area and are playing with an entirely different set of factors, as in what is art worth, what is a craftsmans time worth, what is the market bearing for his work........

One note worth mentioning, just because you may pay $1200 for a gorgeous pipe doesn't necessarily guarantee those basic all important factors mentioned in my opening comments. It happens. I've had some pretty high dollar pipes that didn't smoke as well as my Stanwells or Simple Castello Sea Rocks, but I've also experienced some gorgeous and expensive briars that were engineered as good as any pipe on the planet.

 

[Tennessee Dave]

Great information from PD. If you want a "holy grail" piece I think that's grand. I would recommend, though, that you first of all talk with folks about which carvers they would recommend and then see if they can make the pipe of your dreams. Above a certain amount I do think you are paying for both aesthetics and the reputation of the carver. In my opinion it is sometimes worth it. I still have a couple on my short list of "must haves" and I know exactly what I want and have great expectations that once I get them I will be satisfied. Of course this expectation is probably just dillusional. If you are going to get a "high end" pipe you may as well try to get one that you will enjoy smoking because (1) it is the pipe of your dreams and (2) it smokes beautifully. I think you can get both if you do your research. Then communicate with the carver so that you are both on the same page. It's a fantastic experience. Good luck.

 

[shootist51]

According to some of the historical reading I have done on pipe developement, the first pipes consisted of a hole poked in the ground with a hollow reed inserted to the base. That being said, and the fact that primitive tobacco was pretty harsh, indicates that enjoyment can be achieved without a fantastic outlay of cash.

I have to agree that at some level, you are no longer paying for a pipe, but for a piece of art, and that's fine if it floats your boat, but the main factors in a pipes smokability, to me, are a reasonably good piece of wood that has been engineered correctly and carved in a pleasing manner.

The up side to expensive pipes is the joy you have in ownership and a $500 pipe enjoyed for 40 years only costs you about$12.50/ yr.

 

[Sasquatch]

As a guy who makes pipes, and being absolutely BENT about making good smokers, I agree with PuffDaddy by and large.

150-250 in a handmade should guarantee you get a well engineered pipe made from good materials. There are exceptions - you hear about the occassional stem that is too restricted, or some issue with fit and finish, but by and large, 150 bucks on a handmade will buy you a pipe that smokes as good as anything out there. OR maybe another way to say it is that while there may be some "super pipes" out there, the average smoker is not going to find the hint of balsamic onion or whatever the flavor nuance is supposed to be.

I think part of how well most pipes are judged in their performance comes from the individual who owns it, as well. A guy who likes the tighter draw of a Kaywoodie with a stinger in it is going to be shocked at my large pipes which are drilled at 11/64. They FEEL different. Is one better than the other? Well, I think so, but I'm not going to argue with anyone about what they like.

 

[lowflyingpenguin]

I had a pipe custom made up for me by Julius Vesz in Toronto and I must say that it is a great smoker in his raindrop design with a nice antique sterling silver band. I paid not a ton of money (+400) but I got a pipe engineered for me and no one else.

One I bought after searching high and low is a Ser Jacopo Frodo from their short-lived Lord of The Rings series. I only paid just over $150CDN for it and it smokes really nicely as well.

Then again I love my Petersons (although some of my newer ones do not smoke nearly as well as my ones I bought in the '70s). So I guess you can say that the price is not really a factor in the smoking quality, if it is engineered well, so much as aesthetics and uniqueness.

 

[Amenhotep04]

Thanks, I really appreciate the comments. Honestly, everyone said what I was hoping. I just returned from a 180 miles drive (90 each way) to the closest pipe shop, The Briary in Birmingham. I had a long conversation on this very topic with the owner, and his sentiments echo what everyone has said here. Ironically, I picked up a Randy Wiley (still well within my typical price range) that in overall appearance was not what I like, but holding it in my hand, and some kind of intangible I could not put my finger on, it just got to me. I'm not a fan of the freehand look. This one though got to me.

As I looked at some of the pipes from $700-$1000, all I could think of was that these things should be in a museum somewhere. They were beautiful. Great stuff.

:farao:

 

[Sasquatch]

LOL - "it just got to me"

I used to think Wiley style freehands were pretty dumb. And while the really far out shapes I still have little patience for, a classic Danish egg or wide-rim plateux topped monster I still have to stop and stare at. Once you get one warm and smoking oh so nice, they really put a lot of the classic shapes out of your mind. Enjoy it!

If it has a conical sort of chamber, much smaller at the bottom than the top, I recommend taking a "pinch" of tobacco, rolling it up, and just plopping it in there. Leave some air at the bottom. It will smoke very very nicely with hardly any tamping. :cheers:

 

[Sasquatch]

Freehands will save the world.

 

[Amenhotep04]

Sasquatch, the second pipe, the one on the bottom is similar to what I picked up. Mine is a bit more narrow at the bottom and the bowl has a couple swirls in it as well as part of the shank. Just smoked about half a bowl of something called creme brulee. Felt weird getting the stuff, but thought I'd give it a try. It was a day of new beginnings. Nevertheless, nearly 90 minutes later and it has been a great smoke. Wow.

:farao:

 

[Tennessee Dave]

Sasquatch I understand what you are talking about with regards to the Wiley freehands. All are big. When I first got into pipes about 3 years ago I was really into these big ole pipes and I thought Randy Wiley made some awesome ones for my taste. Well I have come a little toward the classic shape now I suppose but I have a Wiley freehand that I love and it remains to this day one of my best smokers. So I appreciate what you are saying about these big freehands. My Wiley smokes like a dream.

 

[Natch]

"Freehands will save the world." Sasquatch

To the contraty, freehands almost cost me my life in high school when my girlfriends father caught my freehands where they weren't supposed to be. :mrgreen:

Natch

 

[Winslow]

Yes, I'll never forget how one father chewed me out and told
me that no 16 year old punk was going to ruin his daughter's
life!

[/img]


Winslow :x

 

[Anonymous]

I would have to say yes. I know there's a lot of discussion that higher end pipes are all about aesthetics and the grain, so let me tell you about my pipe evolution.

The early years (pre 18)
I smoked mainly cigars and corn cobs with whatever tobacco I could steal from my uncles without them noticing. I absolutely detest cobs for this reason probably.

College days
I had a few pipes all relatively cheap. I wish I could remember the brands, but by cheap, I mean cheap. These pipes smoked hot. Still a big jump from cobs, but I knew that there had to be better pipes. Some of them may be KWs which may account for my distaste for these, that and the fact that all wrinkled old men I knew smoked these.

Early Work Days
My pipes were 20-30 bucks. Back then I was buying Bjarnes Vikings for this price, and these pipes were pretty good. Compared to crap I smoked in my early days, I was in heaven. I had trouble spending too much for pipes due to being alone in the world and survival being my ultimate goal.

A Little Later in my Early Work Days
I had given up the pipe for cigars. Didn't have one in my place. Then I got married, and my ex wife expressed an interest in pipes. So we bought another of these Bjarnes (this is the oldest pipe I still own) which were now costing a little more than the 20 and 30 that I remembered. At this point, I realized that I enjoyed the pipe once again, and picked up a few to make a quick rotation.

My mid twenties
I was making a little more money and bought my first Peterson. Oh Boy was I in Heaven! I told myself I'd never smoke cheap pipes again (please note that I had spend 70, the most I had ever spent on a pipe in a local shop). I fell for the sales pitch of the "Big Three" and bought many Peterson's and Savinellis.

Fast Forward to about 3 or 4 years ago...
I was still smoking my Petes and Savis (1 or 2 Stanwellls that just didn't smoke right for me). Then something happened.... I discovered Ebay, and I was also just making decent money and stepped up to pipes that were about 100 to 150 bucks. Now let me elaborate, with each step in grade (and price), I found a pipe that smoked alot better. I was now smoking some Dunhills, a Castello, I mean high end pipes that I had gotten on ebay for good deal.

THen....
I had purchased a Tinsky Corral on sale about Christmas maybe 3 years ago. It was a bulldog and is owned by a buddy from another forum now. I could not believed how much better this pipe smoked than just about anything I owned. It was on par to the Dunhills and Castellos I was smoking. Then the boss tells me I'm getting an 800 buck Christmas bonus, and I immediately bought 5 more Tinskys.


The last 3 years
I got my first high end Rad Davis. Great Horny Toads! I started looking at other artisan pipes, now spending at least 300 per pipe and not regretting a cent.


Epilogue
Ok, my impressions, many will say that a good smoker is a good smoker no matter what it costs, and I will say they are right to a degree. But the stars have to align just right, you have to throw some toad eyelashes and light some incense while chanting a Haittan nursery rhyme. When I buy a Tinsky, rad Davis, Ruthenberg, that pipe smokes well from the first light. not begging it to build cake so it doesnt make hair grow on my tongue...

Some will chime in and say that I am just paying for pretty grain. But have y'all smoked a Roush, let's say? I mean, I'm not sure these pipes would win a beauty contest, but the two I have are some of the top smokers in my collection. Cool, dry, just fine smokers. I'm sure there are reasons for it; I know Larry cures or ages (whatever it's called) briar that is already quality wood. Artisans such as the ones I mentioned will not sell a bad pipe nor use a bad piece of briar. There's no flaws to disguise, nor poorly aged (cured?) briar used by others.

 

[puros_bran]

Thanks TO...

I offer this up from my experiance AND from what I gather from posts like TO put up...

You can have fun/find enjoyment in a 20 buck pipe, You can have fun/ find enjoyment with a $20,000 pipe.

I'm one of the first to jump on the bandwagon and tease someone about their choice of pipe whether its a KayWoodie or a Sixten. (I don't mean any harm, I'm just goofing off).. The truth is love is where you find it...If your happy with a $75 Pete, screw the high dollar boys and smoke your Pete.. If you enjoy your $1600 S Bang, screw the people pressuring you to admit your not paying for a better smoke.
Pipes are kinda like women..and no I don't mean to slobber on and run your grubby mitts all over the grain.. I mean some guys are not happy unless they have a near flawless example and some are happy with the girl next door...Who's got the better women? They both do. We (humans) seem to take great pleasure in telling a man where to find pleasure, but the truth is what makes me delirious happy may just leave you out in the cold and vice versa. There's a lot more joy in wanting what you have as opposed to this continual search for greener grass, unless of course the chase is what you crave, in that case chase on bro......

 

[Puff Daddy]

TO brings up a good point. What it costs to get a good smoking pipe depends on who you get it from. You may get a wonderfully engineered rusticated Radice on sale at smokingpipes for $170 that smokes amazingly well, but Rad and Rousch don't sell theirs that low. Tinsky maybe a little higher than the Radice. S. Bang won't let them go for what Rousch will sell his for....... There are many levels of lowest price structure a carver or carving house can sell their pipes for, so you kind of have to decide what your price point is and search out those who can deliver a superb product in that range. If you can afford to gather a few $200 pipes, you'll have little trouble finding some great pipes in that range. $500? You'll have little trouble here too, but you'll still not be able to get the cheapest pipe from the most elite carvers at this price. On the other hand, you can get a the best pipe Peterson makes for less than that, or you can buy a drop dead gorgeous Castello Collection, or a sandblasted Former, or............



:scratch: :scratch: :bball: :bball:

 

[Amenhotep04]

Well is it fair to say that regardless of the price tag, that some pipe makers make consistently good smokes, while others are not as consistent? Also, regardless of price, some pipe makers make consistently aesthetically pleasing pipes while others are inconsistent there as well?

After reading what everyone is saying, it's almost as though the answer has to begin, "It depends . . ." or "Yes, but no."

In the meantime trends in who is hot drives prices up; marketing of said products does the same; and cultural trends push tobacco out the window because it's dangerous to your health driving some pipe makers out of business. So I guess my original question was out of sorts. Pipes are not absolute in their quality at the aesthetic nor smoking qualities. And aesthetic qualities are increasingly being included on how one experiences the pipe.

Ah heck, so it basically revolves around how you experience whatever pipe you're smoking, . . . within certain loosely defined parameters? So my grab bag little bent with the lucite stem gives me as much pleasure smoking as does my nice Mastro de Paja Rhodesian. But, my other seven or eight cheap pipes don't even compare in the quality of smoke, yet a couple of my cheap pipes are kinda pretty.

I don't know. Now I'm ranting. :farao:

 

[Puff Daddy]

One of the guys here, forgot who, is fond of saying "Smoke what you like, like what you smoke". Applies well to this conversation.

 

[mark]

What Puros_Bran said sums it up in my opinion,,,,,
















but don't tell him I said so

 

[Eulenburg]

WOW! Those two freehands are gorgeous!