Pipe shape reference online?

[Hater]

why is this one thatt looks like an egg called a dublin? Why is this one that looks like a rounded poker called a billiard? why is this freehand looking thing called a queen egg? These are just SOME of the questions Ive been asking myself haha. I've been perusing the trusty interwebs and have yet to come across a detailed all encompassing spot that details the variety of pipe shapes and gives a history of them. any help would be appreciated.

Your truly,

a noob

 

[monbla256]

why is this one thatt looks like an egg called a dublin? Why is this one that looks like a rounded poker called a billiard? why is this freehand looking thing called a queen egg? These are just SOME of the questions Ive been asking myself haha. I've been perusing the trusty interwebs and have yet to come across a detailed all encompassing spot that details the variety of pipe shapes and gives a history of them. any help would be appreciated.

Your truly,

a noob

Good luck! Have been smoking for over 40 years now, and have seen many shape charts put out by makers over the years which tell you what THEY call a shape ( and many times one makers " Dublin " was anothers " Londonaire" etc.) . I've never seen anything which shows ALL the shapes nor seen anything that gives a sort of definition to these names. I've always took what was said "that's a Billiard" as bieng what is. Unless someone takes what would be a very long involved research project to do this I'm afraid you'll be out of luck. I'm just not aware of any sort of document as you ask about.

 

[mark]

I gave up trying to put a label on anything but a few time worn standard shapes. The hybridization of styles has pretty much grown lately with the plethora of modern carvers. I look at a pipe and assign it a shape and add "ish" on the end,,,as in "acornish" or " dublinish".

 

[Kyle Weiss]

http://pipedia.org/index.php?title=Pipe_Shapes

*shrug*

There's other references out there, but as is suggested, it's a little contrived in the sense that shape lines are often combined and blurred as creativity and style change, both through the years and into today. Make your own decisions regarding shape, though it creates some interesting debates and speculations around here. 8)

 

[Smoker99]

There are no set rules about shape. Makers can call them what they want, regardless of how silly. I use old school definitions. The biggest ongoing discussion, I think, is over whether it's a bulldog or rhodesian. In this regard, to me a round shank is always a rhodie, and a diamond is always a dog.

 

[Blackhorse]

Check out the Peterson B5. Diamond shank - and yet it's a Rhodesian. And one of the most excellwnt versions I've seen...by a classic company with the chops to be naming names. I think it has more to do with the bowl's height above the shank. Bulldogs hunch down low...Rhodesians are taller. Just my spin.

Hey, I've even seen big time vendors call the Pete B5 a Rhodesian in one line and a Dog in another...so I don't feel bad being confused.

 

[Kyle Weiss]

Check out the Peterson B5. Diamond shank - and yet it's a Rhodesian. And one of the most excellwnt versions I've seen...by a classic company with the chops to be naming names. I think it has more to do with the bowl's height above the shank. Bulldogs hunch down low...Rhodesians are taller. Just my spin.

Hey, I've even seen big time vendors call the Pete B5 a Rhodesian in one line and a Dog in another...so I don't feel bad being confused.

Didn't I read recently about a vendor swapping boxes on two very similar Petes and sending the wrong one out? :lol:

 

[Zeno Marx]

Check out the Peterson B5. Diamond shank - and yet it's a Rhodesian. And one of the most excellwnt versions I've seen...by a classic company with the chops to be naming names.

I think this happens for lots of reasons, many of which wouldn't dictate giving anyone such forgiving authority. I run into it all the time in music. "It's just a word." "It's just a name." "I didn't give it much thought, so I slapped something on it. I knew it was close enough." "Oh, our manager wrote that. He doesn't really know the differences." "We knew that would grab someone's attention." "We were in a hurry." "Someone in marketing wrote that. They haven't a clue." etc etc

I always thought bulldogs were diamond shanked, and rhodesians round shanked. I've seen squat bulldogs (short) and tall bulldogs, but they all have that diamond shank in common. (Boswell makes some of the sharpest rhodesians I've seen)

 

[Rusty]

Shapes are great source of discussion. A basic recognition of the names for shapes is taken for granted most of the time, at least among the experienced. Short of a picture it's the best way to describe them. But it's not as if there is an ISO standard or anything like that. In fact the origins are somewhat obscure and to some extent lost in history for many. Their origins are not that well documented. Plus there are interesting variations of almost all of them. Some of the variations were iconic well known manufacturer shapes. But there are classical norms that we recognize. Bill Burney's shape chart is a very good one that provides a pretty good basic understanding and covers some variations.

Some shapes precede the rise of Briar pipes (early 1850's). This is obvious in the case of Cutty's and some others that go back to clays but many of them originate with briar. And it's pretty clear that it was an evolutionary development. So, for example, the Prince shape was made for the popular Prince of Wales in the 1920's before he became King Edward VIII and then abdicated and became the Duke of Windsor (I notice that Bill thinks it's a different Prince of Wales than I do. LOL!). There are many pictures of the Duke of Windsor with his Prince pipes. Whereas there are none of his grandfather (who succeeded Victoria) smoking a Prince.

 

[Zeno Marx]

This also reminds me of the instances when names get changed, and the changes go unchallenged. I've noticed that every skateboard trick has been renamed at least once. Someone who skated in the 70s and 80s would have to actually watch the trick to know what was happening. If they were told about it without the visual, they'd stand there scratching their head. Many of the same tricks. Completely different lexicon.

 

[Kyle Weiss]

This also reminds me of the instances when names get changed, and the changes go unchallenged.

I'm curious...what's been changed? I kind of thought things stayed pretty static, but have been added-to. *shrug* 8) I like terminology/identification evolution, so it'd be cool to know what the times of yore might have called certain shapes.

 

[Rusty]

This also reminds me of the instances when names get changed, and the changes go unchallenged.

I'm curious...what's been changed? I kind of thought things stayed pretty static, but have been added-to. *shrug* 8) I like terminology/identification evolution, so it'd be cool to know what the times of yore might have called certain shapes.

That's a curious observation. Which shape names were changed?

I suppose it's not beyond the realm of possibility. Names suggest a familiarity and they may be influenced (or hijacked) by honouring famous people.

One of the interesting side-effects of shape naming is the presumption that all shapes have names. I once experienced an odd forum discussion with a new pipe smoker who had purchased a nice estate Dunhill that of course was a numbered shape. The shape didn't have a familiar name. But it was tough to get him to buy into the notion that not every shape has a name. Some are not familiar enough to have names. Also some manufacturers adopted different names than the common ones for the shapes with their own production. Sasieni did this, for example. So did Charatan and that resulted in discussions around Banker or Diplomat? But I think they're similar but not actually the same shape.

I must say I never understood the confusion about Rhodesians vs. Bulldogs. They're different though similar shapes and some pipes are in between the two. The diamond vs. round shank is not the distinction. There are diamond shanked Rhodesians. Go stand in front of them or pics of them until you see it. The bowl is a different shape. If you own both turn them over and it becomes obvious. Also the Rhodesian is a heavier bulkier looking shape that is usually more robust looking than a Bulldog. Some say the Rhodesian originated with the Boer War where the heavier robustness was important.

 

[Kyle Weiss]

So the proper names then haven't changed, they were originally numbers? I understand it'd be pretty natural for a pipe to become some kind of hybrid, or change in such a way to distinguish itself from the original shape it might have started out originally, and then acquire a name. Are there any instances where a common name today was known as something entirely different "back then" but really is the same pipe?

 

[Richard Burley]

Generally speaking, I don't see any difficulty in identifying this or that shape. There are borderline cases, and obvious freestyles that defy classification, but most pipes are, if not x, then x-ish or y-ish or whatever. But every once in a while something comes along that boggles my bean. I call this the nutsack:

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[George Kaplan]

I call this the nutsack

Well thanks, Richard. Now that you said that, I can never un-see it.

 

[George Kaplan]

This also reminds me of the instances when names get changed, and the changes go unchallenged.

I'm curious...what's been changed? I kind of thought things stayed pretty static, but have been added-to. *shrug* 8) I like terminology/identification evolution, so it'd be cool to know what the times of yore might have called certain shapes.

That's a curious observation. Which shape names were changed?

I suppose it's not beyond the realm of possibility. Names suggest a familiarity and they may be influenced (or hijacked) by honouring famous people.

I'm treading close to tangent territory here, but the Oom Paul is a good example. I've heard many pipe makers, especially British, insist on calling this shape the "Hungarian" out of refusal to honor Paulus Kruger, the pipe's namesake.

 

[monbla256]

This also reminds me of the instances when names get changed, and the changes go unchallenged.

I'm curious...what's been changed? I kind of thought things stayed pretty static, but have been added-to. *shrug* 8) I like terminology/identification evolution, so it'd be cool to know what the times of yore might have called certain shapes.

That's a curious observation. Which shape names were changed?

I suppose it's not beyond the realm of possibility. Names suggest a familiarity and they may be influenced (or hijacked) by honouring famous people.

I'm treading close to tangent territory here, but the Oom Paul is a good example. I've heard many pipe makers, especially British, insist on calling this shape the "Hungarian" out of refusal to honor Paulus Kruger, the pipe's namesake.

I always heard that it was due to the Libel Laws in effect in Britain back in the late 19th/early 20th century about using proper names for commercial products that Kruger's name was not used as well as some of the usual British snobbery about most things Continental prevelant back then . I had allways heard of that pipe as a "Hungarian" until a few years after I started smoking when I heard it refered to as an Oom Paul.

 

[George Kaplan]

I always heard that it was due to the Libel Laws in effect in Britain back in the late 19th/early 20th century about using proper names for commercial products that Kruger's name was not used as well as some of the usual British snobbery about most things Continental prevelant back then . I had allways heard of that pipe as a "Hungarian" until a few years after I started smoking when I heard it refered to as an Oom Paul.

That's interesting, Monbla. I never knew of such a law. It seems like calling it "Uncle Paul" would be a bit vague to be considered a proper name, but I'm thinking from a 20th century American legal perspective. I wonder what Kruger himself called it. Probably just "my pipe".

 

[monbla256]

I always heard that it was due to the Libel Laws in effect in Britain back in the late 19th/early 20th century about using proper names for commercial products that Kruger's name was not used as well as some of the usual British snobbery about most things Continental prevelant back then . I had allways heard of that pipe as a "Hungarian" until a few years after I started smoking when I heard it refered to as an Oom Paul.

That's interesting, Monbla. I never knew of such a law. It seems like calling it "Uncle Paul" would be a bit vague to be considered a proper name, but I'm thinking from a 20th century American legal perspective. I wonder what Kruger himself called it. Probably just "my pipe".

It's along the lines of the "Prince" shape. As I recall bieng told, it was a shape that Dunhill supposedly came up with for the Prince of Wales ( he's pictured with this shape in most of the pics of him smoking a pipe back then) back in the 20's/30's and they called it the "Prince" as opposed to adding his name to it. And remember, Paul is a proper name