Red, Bright, Maryland, Kentucky, etc: What does it all mean?

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Rusty, the site even you referenced had no definitive terms that said "curing equals varietal." It said most varietals are cured (X) way. It was the "Period" statement I was kind of raising an eyebrow to.

The government can classify whatever it wants however it wants, likely because it's only slightly less confusing that tobacco culture and terms. :lol: Not liking the competition, they just made a "law," dusted off their hands and called it good.

I'm certainly not saying you're wrong overall, I'm leaving room open for that. Apparently we just interpret things differently.

One way this could be solved is by showing me growers that simply buy a big bag of "tobacco seed," with no specific name on it what so ever, and then cure it in a particular way, and then miraculously have different products they refer to as Virginia, Burley, Perique, etc. Than I'd believe you.

 
Kyle Weiss":6r9y4q23 said:
Rusty, the site even you referenced had no definitive terms that said "curing equals varietal." It said most varietals are cured (X) way.

The government can classify whatever it wants however it wants, likely because it's only slightly less confusing that tobacco culture and terms. :lol: Not liking the competition, they just made a "law," dusted off their hands and called it good.

I'm certainly not saying you're wrong overall, I'm leaving room open for that. Apparently we just interpret things differently.

One way this could be solved is by showing me growers that simply buy a big bag of "tobacco seed," with no specific name on it what so ever, and then cure it in a particular way, and then miraculously have different products they refer to as Virginia, Burley, Perique, etc. Than I'd believe you.
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There are many seed types. These are plant varietals.
It's not a tobacco type for us until has it been cured. The curing determines the familiar name.
Accept or not it's up to you. I think if you read you'll see it eventually.

Are there seeds that yield a bright green plant that is air cured to make white burley - yes. But it's not white burley unless it is air cured.

This is all really fundamental stuff to understanding what tobacco is in our blends.
 
Yeah yeah, I get it. Air-cured Virginias are actually Burleys. :roll:

Something tells me there's a lot more to the story, and we can agree on one thing: I shall read up more on this, as I have a feeling your understanding of it is different than the descriptions you're giving. I'm intrigued by your understanding, in other words. 8)
 
I don't want to agree with Kyle. And I don't want to call you wrong.

BUT.

The 'faux' perique everyone raises hell about is fermented green river burley. It is cured just like perique but it's not perique.

Kentucky and Latakia are both cured the same way but vastly different.

Flue curing white burley would result in a flue cured burley monstrosity. Not a Virginia.

Curing is essential to producing what we expect a tobacco to taste like, but so is seed strain and growing area.
 
Also. There's a reason the Virginia strain is flue cured, Kentucky is smoked, burley is air cured. I can't help but believe the various methods have been used on the various strains and the optimal cure is mated to the optimal seed.
 
I don't even necessarily agree with me, I claim at least partial ignorance here, but something's amiss. One guy calling bullpucky on how many instances I have read referencing "Air Cured Virginia" (which, apparently is wrong, "Period.")...

...or is it the kind of thing akin to using a preposition at the end of a sentence, incorrect, but so damn common, good luck changing anything? Archaic and esoteric use aside, eventually, I'll find out the difference, and when I do, I'll be sure to write a comprehensive note about it sometime. Someplace. Somewhere.
 
Kyle Weiss":9t7b8vx7 said:
Yeah yeah, I get it. Air-cured Virginias are actually Burleys. :roll:

Something tells me there's a lot more to the story, and we can agree on one thing: I shall read up more on this, as I have a feeling your understanding of it is different than the descriptions you're giving. I'm intrigued by your understanding, in other words. 8)
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Ok lets start at the beginning.
1) Yes there are plant varietals identified as seed types that are used in the various belts to produce tobaccos that are intended for those curing techniques. The seed intended to produce Va's are different than the seeds for Burley. Are we ok still?
I'm not saying that all the tobaccos start from the same common seed. They don't. Nor did the quote.

2) But as the quote said "Yet, each type of tobacco is generally defined by the curing method applied to it."
It didn't say there is common seed. It said that tobacco ie that is used in blends, is defined by the curing technique. So our common familiar names eg Virginia, white Burley, Dark burley etc etc are all familiar names for a curing technique. That the farmer chooses a seed that is intended for that curing technique is true.

3) So it's not Virginia unless it is flue cured. Virginia is a familiar name for flue cured tobacco. That the farmer actually selects a seed that will produce a plant that is worth flue curing is presumed. Nothing here denies that.

You brought in seeds. I didn't. We're not farmers.

So tell me if you air cure tobacco leaves that were grown from seed intended to be flue cured. What do you have?

 
Well, I wanted a grenade, one I filled with my own "retard" apparently. :lol: BOOM! Thick kaydubbayew wins again.

It's like manifest destiny up in here.

Look, Rusty, books are a bit less likely to interact with me like I'm skullvoid, so I'll take it up with them and sconce the next skeptic, okay? 8)
 
Names of tobacco types is complicated, and largely subjective. Names are a combination of curing method and varietal. The federal govt is not the definitive answer for anything. Burley is burley, regardless of how it is cured. Kentucky is just a fire cured burley. Cavendish is a process, not a tobacco type. To cavendish a tobacco is to soak/cook in water, sugar water. Black cavendish is known in the US to be a sweet and flavored tobacco. In the UK, brown cavendish is unsweetened and unflavored. Maryland is a bright, light tobacco, without a lot of body or flavor or taste, and is used in cigarettes a lot. In general, for US grown tobaccos, virginias are high sugar tobaccos and low in nicotine and may tend to bite some folks. Burley tobaccos are low sugar, high in nicotine and no bite unless cased. African virginias, like GH uses, are grown in nitrogen poor soil and are low sugar. The are strong with no bite. This is by no means a definitive answer to your questions, there are many online resources.
 
puros_bran":xhb188kp said:
I don't want to agree with Kyle. And I don't want to call you wrong.

BUT.

The 'faux' perique everyone raises hell about is fermented green river burley. It is cured just like perique but it's not perique.

Kentucky and Latakia are both cured the same way but vastly different.

Flue curing white burley would result in a flue cured burley monstrosity. Not a Virginia.

Curing is essential to producing what we expect a tobacco to taste like, but so is seed strain and growing area.
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Actually there is an important point about the Perique. There are two types of Perique from LA Poche. One is St. James Perique which is pure Perique grown in the St. James parish. The other is Acadian Perique which is a blend of green river Burley selected for its quality and processed like Perique along with pure St. James Perique.

The crop in St. james was very small and varied a lot every single year. That presents a challenge for tobacco manufacturers. It's inconsistent year over year. So it's hard to use it in blends. Some of them responded by replacing Perique with fire cured Kentucky Burley before the Acadian was available and understood. So in addition to a small crop there was increasingly poor demand. You can see where this leads without a lot of imagination.

Mac Baren in 2005 actually presented about blends at Chicago and their comment was that they no longer used Perique but instead were using fire cured Burley because it was consistent year to year. The Acadian Perique addressed that problem. Since then demand is up and the manufacturers are now using more Perique. But my understanding is that it is mostly the quality improved Acadian. Mac Baren is now using Perique again. They bought into the quality argument of the Acadian. So in a sense the Perique, you call faux, which is a quality improvement saved Perique.

Check out Mac Baren's 2005 presentation video "2005 - Per Jensen: Tobacco Blending" here:
http://www.chicagopipeshow.com/education/video_broad.php
 
So the only definitive agreement is that Kyle has mental issues.

Lol. White Burley is a plant strain, not a curing type.

Just to theow another wrench in your aegument how does Dark Virginia come about?It is Virginia but it isn't flue cured.
 
I don't need a website. I was on the ground when it was started. And I called it 'faux' perique because that has been the general pipe forum identifier, not a name I coined. But Acadian is not perique. It's green river burley fermented like perique regardless of what a salesman wants us to believe.
 
Fwiw: I really don't care. Lol

For the first time in 38 years I do not grow tobacco, hold a tobacco base I sublet out, or work for anyone in the tobacco industry. Even further, over the past few months I've only used tobacco a couple times.

Call it whatever makes ya happy. Lol
 
puros_bran":jaw149m5 said:
So the only definitive agreement is that Kyle has mental issues.

Lol. White Burley is a plant strain, not a curing type.

Just to theow another wrench in your aegument how does Dark Virginia come about?It is Virginia but it isn't flue cured.
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Are you & Kyle a tag team?

I agree that it is a plant strain but to become a Burley it must also be air cured.

If you have info please share it. I'll read it with interest, esp if you work in the tobacco industry.
Go ahead.
 
Burley does not have to be air cured.
It can also be fire cured, fermented, or sun cured.
Just as a portion of Virginia is sun cured.
I don't know why you are insisting otherwise, but like I said if it makes you feel better call it what you want.
 
puros_bran":315ltwyd said:
Burley does not have to be air cured.
It can also be fire cured, fermented, or sun cured.
Just as a portion of Virginia is sun cured.
I don't know why you are insisting otherwise, but like I said if it makes you feel better call it what you want.
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Ok so I'm clearly going to learn something so please help me understand from the pov of our pipe tobaccos.

White Burley - light coloured, a bit like oatmeal; is it air, sun, or fire cured?
An example would be C&D's White Burley in their blenders.
Which ever curing method is correct who or which blends use the others?

Can you give me an example of a commercially available blend that uses sun cured Virginia?
 
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