Tobacco Prohibition Coming?

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I've already heard that they plan on getting rid of flavored cigarettes...perhaps they will rid flavored pipe tobacco?
I can forsee it now...Obama Brand pipe tobacco...sweet with lots of bite, but hey its a change
and the socialiszed dr only allows you one 10g pouch a month
 
The Plan is to Ban Nicotine

From the 'debate' on FDA regulation in the House of Representatives, and considering the orchestra of recent tobacco related legislation, nicotine, not tobacco per se, is to be prohibited. This is to be the model for interceding into sugar and caffeine food content. The mantra is that children should not be at risk of getting addicted. The plan is to remove the addicting ingredient (nicotine, sugar, or caffeine) and you can 'taste' all the small beer nicotine-free 'herbal smoking mixtures' you want. Aromatherapy.

American Justice for Sale, Big Tobacco Can Pay

As is well known in our system of justice, we are all equal, some (Phillip Morris) more than others (i.e. Peretti's). Big tobacco has the money to create fiduciary 'personal working relationships' with the FDA inspectors and regulators. FDA oversight of perishable food inspection is Escherichia coli and Salmonella ludicrous, drug approval processes and accessibility, all greased by, not bribery of course, but something..., let's call it 'good will.' With enough Durst money, murder in Texas gets a 'tsk' and probation for mutilation of a corpse.

Philip Morris Will Make Big Money

This is favorable to Philip Morris because they have the laboratories and money to make the 'food label' spectrographic nicotine content packaging disclosures. From their website, "PM USA has worked with the FTC on this topic for many years and remains committed to working with the FTC and other federal authorities to identify and adopt a standardized testing methodology that improves on the Cambridge Filter Method." In addition 'a low-nicotine cigarette test-marketed by Philip Morris in the early 1990s' as a vehicle for smoking cessation would be a ready profit opportunity under the imposition of lower and lower nicotine levels. Big brother is going to force America to quit smoking. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2002/02/020214075903.htm It's even better that the federal government will take care of their marketing. The issue that FDA approval may be interpreted as conferring credibility to some (Philip Morris) tobacco products has been raised. True, but the trade off for the feds is their empowerment to first direct disclosure, then control and progressively reduce how much nicotine you can have. The operative word is power. Public perception isn't as important as some Fed sitting in a tobacco related business's office drooling to bring the full force of the federal government down if you insist on delivering nicotine, endangering poorly parented, helpless children. O, the children.

Reynold's Smokeless, Nicotine Bad

Reynold's smokeless candied nicotine delivery won't be FDA approved because some pierced and tatted child wanting nicotine with their Red Bull may become a smoker. It doesn't matter that you're not going to get lung or mouth or throat cancer from a candied lozenge, or 'energy' drink, low calorie available, the proximate enemy is not cancer, or emphysema, but addiction to nicotine. The political right having promoted marijuana as a gateway drug to 'harder stuff' for as long as we can remember cannot find an argument against the political left juggernaut now. Who wants to deny that the gateway drug to smoking is nicotine? The same rationale that everyone who smokes a joint will end up shooting heroin; initially seduced by smokeless nicotine candy today, little Suzy will be hot-boxing a terrorist Cuban Pyramid every hour tomorrow, and Afghani hookah opium the day after. The left would just as righteously slap that disgusting cigarette, pipe or cigar out of your mouth as protect a woman's right to choose abortion while you are not to have the right to smoke as both the political right and left are determined that you cannot smoke a joint with your highball. As if. People are funny. In politics, nothing has to make sense but the vote count. O, the children.

Additives Perceptions and Disclosure

The volume and ingenuity of cigarette additives is nothing short of amazing. Manufacturers will have to disclose what's in it, similar to the Danish practice. Esoterica cannot sell Penzance in Denmark because they can't disclose. They would pass the low nicotine level with flying colors, but it will take too much money to answer the question of the health effects of smoking that secret oil, whatever it is. Moreover, it wouldn't be a secret anymore. In favor of propylene glycol-based aromatics is the understanding that there are no known adverse health effects, beyond that expected of tobacco. Traditional English and the Perique processes for example have the defense that they are not intended to manipulate composition 'unnaturally.'

Loose bulk pipe tobacco, as 'unpackaged,' is either going to have a transition period to create adequate 'disclosure packaging,' stopped by Customs, or channeled through 'licensed' tobacconists who themselves will be responsible for nicotine content disclosure and client age requirements. I hope this will be low priority.

If they will bring out the Army over smokeless tobacco, consider being careful pushing the cache of the piper or premium cigar smoker as more attractive or sophisticated than the cigarette smoker or spitters. This will only bring in the image police charged to discredit all nicotine use in the totality. Never forget that from their point of view, all nicotine use is reprehensible, it isn't even an issue of smoking or chewing per se. What promise can be made that smoking low-nicotine herbal smoking mixture won't lead to smoking 'the stronger stuff?'

Unsolicited GL Pease and C&D Advice: Tobacco Easier to Export than Import

The smart domestic producer and blender move is to go international, the sooner the better. As America's standard of living is progressively equalized to the developing world, the developing and third world already spending 10% of their per capita income on tobacco products, it just makes good business sense to establish a market for 'quality' in China and India for example, offices in Mumbai and Hong Kong. The emerging middle and upper classes of those behemoth countries are the market of their future profitability, without all this politically correct Victorian hand wringing in America. They have that desire for the 'finer things in life' and the money to pay. With mandatory disclosure, the domestic effort should be to have natural 'additive free' tobacco processes accepted, and not in the same class as cigarette rapid nicotine delivery. Hopefully, by the time the feds get around to full-fledged harassment of pipe tobacco, Chinese penchant for intellectual property infringement and product adulteration a given risk, they will have established their overseas business. The big tobacco profit model is already out of the United States.

eCigarettes: Brave New World

It's hip to be square. I hadn't heard of smokeless nicotine delivery devices from China until I started reading about tobacco legislation. As HistoryMajor joked, all too close to the truth, a laugh to keep from crying, meeting someone in a parking lot to buy nicotine may be inevitable for some. Nicotine is known as one of the most addictive drugs in existence. They're right about one thing, for most of us, including me; it won't be worth the hassle. You get to enjoy the stress of being criminals in pursuit of your stress reliever. Then you get to stress about passing your nicotine drug test to keep your job. Planning far different from taxing, they intend to force nicotine sugar and caffeine content down. There is a prohibition coming, the black market already gearing up, already here. Maybe you'll even get to sign a disclosure form that releases your health insurance carrier while you're taking delivery of that box of Maple bars. I hope you like NutraSweet, Virginia Slims, and decaf.

The quasi criminalization of nicotine may serve as a model for a form of twilight-zone legalization of other illicit drugs. Everybody knows the prohibition didn't work. Politically however, that doesn't matter. The hypocrisy of legal alcohol compared to illegal marijuana is staggering.

Good News and Kudos

The good news, our TAD has been officially cured. It isn't a disorder anymore, it's prudently storing nuts for the winter. Kudos to those who have established storage that will last. For the rest of us, qui vivra verra.
 
I've already heard that they plan on getting rid of flavored cigarettes...perhaps they will rid flavored pipe tobacco?
It has happened here already, and it is also moving towards flavoured cigarillos...some BS about the packs looking like iPods and stuff.

As for the nicotine, I'd probably keep smoking cleansed tobacco! Last time I checked nicotine was the least of our worries when it comes to the contents of tobacco smoke.

Herzl: Fantastic post. :)
 
You don't recall, big tobacco testified before Congress that nicotine is NOT and addictive substance :lol:

HM you are correct, it is the tars and other substances caused by the combustion of tobacco (and all the flavor enhancers) that are the main cause for health concerns.

A partical list of what is in a 'typical cigarette'

The addition of Corn Silk is a surprise, I smoked Corn Silk cigarettes as a kid :cheers:
 
Justpipes":84z8dg3i said:
EJinVA":84z8dg3i said:
Texas Outlaw":84z8dg3i said:
Also, I find it interesting that Phillip Morris supports this.
Many believe this is just another BIG Corporation with their hands in the government. The fear is the small producers (C&D & GLP among others) would bear the brunt of new regulations, while the big guys could keep on producing their crap.
Answer

I'm sure Virginia has one. If they don't you can join us!
Old Va does.
http://www.virginiacitizenmilitia.org/
I especially appreciate this view: "namely that both parties are controlled by the same elites so that voters are always under the erroneous impression that they can vote the scoundrels out. Playing the Democrat vs. Republican (us vs. them) game is to subject one’s self to the old divide-and-conquer tactic." (about three para. down)
 
(stepping lightly)

...I get the impression that some of you actually smoke CIGARETTES??
 
I used to smoke cigarettes 25+ years! Have been cigarette free for nearly 4 years now! :pipe:
 
I have never liked the smell of cigarettes. My in-laws worked for RJR Tobacco for 25+ years and (were forcibly) retired a few years back. I think half the reason our relationship is soured is due to not letting them smoke cigarettes in our house and vehicles and around our kids. They would always ask what was different with my pipe. And I would reply, "As if I needed to explain that one..." Usually it lead to them stomping off.
 
...I get the impression that some of you actually smoke CIGARETTES??
I'm of the opinion that smokers need to band together if we actually want to have any rights left...

and yes, I smoke them casually when I'm with friends or when I'm out drinking.
 
You are correct HM...we cannot sit back and let legislation slide for cigarettes, because ultimately what affects them affects us, and if they are severely restricted and we are not, we can only look forward for our hobby and lifestyle to be restricted, taxed, limited, shunned, etc.
It is similar with us gun owners...many of us sit aside allowing AKs and AR-15s being made illegal, we allow restrictions on "big bore" rifles, "assault rifles" [that aren't assault rifles at all 90% of the time, "sniper rifles" etc. all because we don't shoot those, or we only shoot shotguns, or we only hunt or whatever...eventually it will hit us all.

Divide and conquer?

United we stand Divided we fall?
 
HistoryMajor":somi97mu said:
...I get the impression that some of you actually smoke CIGARETTES??
I'm of the opinion that smokers need to band together if we actually want to have any rights left...
.
I'm with History Major a fellow Canadian on the stance of pipe tobacco. In the US the baccy laws are turning toward Canadian laws. Canadians are taxed to the max and the US is headed that way.

But the rub is this - billions of $ in Canada and the US are counted on thru the taxing of tobacco - mostly cigarettes. There are still many groups that understand pipe smokers are NOT cigarette smokers. There will never be a prohibition of tabacco. Too many $ at stake on this point.

There will be a backlash and as History Major noted the backlash has already started in Canada. EVERYBODY gets that cigarettes are bad for you - but people will still smoke cigarettes and pipes. Cigarette smoking will continue to decline UNTIL the $ decline - then I believe the laws will be relaxed because there won't be enough tax dollars coming in. Governments are beginning to understand that the populous understands that cigarettes are bad for you. So consumption declines.

How do governments make money ? Taxes on Tobacco, alcohol. $$=amount of tobacco and alcohol sold. When tobacco is not sold dollars will discontinue. There's not much more to tax.

Don't worry about Prohibition. There's WAY too much money at stake to take tobacco out of our hands completely. Laws will become stringent - but governments DO understand that they'll reach a point that $ spent on tobacco education is fruitless. You can't flog a dead horse.
 
Until such a time as politicians learn how NOT to squander dishonestly derived dollars, they will continue to invent new ways of derive them :p
 
Woody is a pragmatist...so am I...but, hey - the fringe is ballast, on both sides...you know, I mean even Ted Kaczynski was right about the basic things he believed (I believe)...it was just the blowing up of random innocent cogs that was misguided.

:cherry:
 
I was wrong about this much at least. From Tobacco Reporter Magazine
FDA approves flavored nicotine lozenges
Jul 14, 2009—The Perrigo Company said yesterday it had received approval from the US Food and Drug Administration to market over-the-counter nicotine lozenges in cherry and cinnamon flavors.

The new products, which are said to provide an aid to smoking cessation, will be marketed under store brand labels.

“These two approvals expand our exclusive position in the store brand nicotine lozenge category,” said Perrigo's chairman and CEO, Joseph C. Papa.

“The expanded range of smoking cessation products also includes coated mint and Fruit Chill(TM) flavored gum, uncoated gum and lozenges.”

Perrigo said that the ‘smoking cessation category’ was selling at an annual rate estimated at about $1 billion at all retail outlet
 
Nasal snuff is on the way back from olden times,course I'm way ahead of the
curve and have been partaking for years. 8)

Winslow :sunny:
 
On another board, Washington State has criminalized mail/parcel receipt of tobacco except for licensed wholesalers and retailers. One person is contemplating obtaining a BATFE license to bring tobacco into the local area. That person already has an extant business.

We are being squeezed. Belmont CA has essentially outlawed tobacco. I've not talked to the folks at McClelland recently; I guess I need to. I need to see what their thoughts are about the business.

For Greg Pease: If California follows Washington's lead, how will that affect your blend development cycles? Relocation to a less anti State?
 
Some good points John. I am surprised this "Washington" subject has not come up on this board and I know from the box passes we have fellow "BoB's" here that live there. What really besides the Washington law sucks is the poor guy who lives in rural areas who has no access to any pipe tobacco other than through the mail. I know Arizona has been making groans to a similar law to close the so called tax loop hole.
 
HistoryMajor":fbftqqe9 said:
...I get the impression that some of you actually smoke CIGARETTES??
I'm of the opinion that smokers need to band together if we actually want to have any rights left...

JohnnyO":fbftqqe9 said:
You are correct HM...we cannot sit back and let legislation slide for cigarettes, because ultimately what affects them affects us, and if they are severely restricted and we are not, we can only look forward for our hobby and lifestyle to be restricted, taxed, limited, shunned, etc.

Divide and conquer?

United we stand Divided we fall?
I agree that we all need to stand together against the antis. It is about our right to choose to partake in something that is legal. We need to support other peoples rights to do the same, whether we agree with their choice or not.

Here is an article that every one who enjoys tobacco should read.

Divided We Fall: The Self Segregation of Smokers

This article is wriiten about tobacco, but it really goes much deeper than that. It applies to more than just tobacco.
 
Very cool article, Buck. Thank you for posting.

Nasal snuff is on the way back from olden times,course I'm way ahead of the
curve and have been partaking for years.
Indeed...I pay around 15 CAD for a small tin. :(
 
Not sure if I mentioned this before, but one thing I do to avoid my local tobacco tax is buy from out of state, mainly from Pipes and Cigars and SmokingPipes. Of course, this will go to hell if they ever pass an Internet tax or completely ban Internet sales of tobacco.

On the snuff: it has caught on here. Long ways from me begging my local shop to carry it to them having trouble keeping it in stock. I don't even get odd stares any more at a restaurant or in the grocery store when I stop to take a hit.
 
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